Hoosiers survive Arkansas, 63-60 in NIT 2nd round

Devonte Green spent his week puking, retching and generally feeling worse for wear.

A stomach bug made its way through Indiana’s locker room in recent days, and the junior guard was its latest victim. Green practiced only once during the buildup to this weekend’s second-round matchup with Arkansas, instead spending the bulk of his time leaning on IU’s team doctors to make him feel right once again.

By Saturday, there was good news. Green looked the part of the go-to player he’s become for this Indiana squad. The only thing visibly sick about him was his skill.

Green poured in 18 points, recorded a double-double with 11 rebounds and helped keep the Hoosiers’ season alive in their 63-60 victory over the Razorbacks before an announced crowd of 12,225 at Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall.

“He was sick all week long with the flu bug or whatever it was,” IU coach Archie Miller said. “He really sort of rose up today when we needed him.”

Did he ever.

Inside of this strange, winding season, Green’s emergence as a reliable top-line contributor may be the most incredible storyline of all. Talent has never been a problem for the New York native. Channeling his flair and natural skill into consistently positive results has been the hurdle Green has struggled to clear.

With the Hoosiers now one win away from a trip to Madison Square Garden and the NIT version of the final four, that hurdle is on the way to being cleared.

Green has now scored in double figures in six consecutive games — the longest such streak of his career — and Indiana’s ability to post wins in six of its past seven contests doesn’t happen without him.

The Hoosiers will now face the winner of Sunday’s Wichita State/Clemson game on Tuesday at Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall. A tipoff time has not been announced.

“This is the guy that he talked about being freshman year when he was sitting behind James (Blackmon Jr.),” classmate De’Ron Davis said. “… He’s not doing anything different, but knocking down shots and getting confident.”

Confidence is a powerful attribute for any athlete. Green is no different.

But with Green, confidence hasn’t seemed to be an issue so much as it has been something he’s struggled to harness appropriately. During his three seasons in Bloomington, Green has seldom appeared hesitant to shoot, or take risks.

Only now, Green’s self-assurance is reflected in more favorable results.

Across the past six games, Green is averaging 16.0 points, while shooting 55 percent (21-for-38) from beyond the arc, seemingly delivering big shots when Indiana has needed them most.

Asked to define his shooting range after Saturday’s game, Green didn’t hesitate.

“Limitless,” he said. “… It’s just like this one’s going in, and the next one’s going in and this one’s going in, and even if it goes out, you’re like, ‘It was this close to going in, so I know the next one’s going in.'”

Green put the Hoosiers ahead for good at 52-51 with his 3-pointer off a kick out from Davis with 8:38 remaining in Saturday’s second half. It was Green’s fourth and final 3 of the day, and it spurred Indiana to a 12-3 run over the next four minutes.

With Romeo Langford missing his second consecutive game with a back injury, Indiana has needed more from its backcourt. Green and point guard Robert Phinisee have not disappointed.

Just as Green has given IU the perimeter production it has so desperately needed this month, Phinisee has also settled in and raised his game. Indiana looked sluggish at the start of each period on Saturday, committing 13 turnovers against the Arkansas press. Phinisee, though, was responsible for only two of those errors, attacking the pressure with poise as the game progressed and finishing with seven points, seven rebounds and five assists.

Inside of a 10-0 Indiana run midway through the second period — a spurt that put Indiana in front 47-43 — Phinisee assisted on three baskets and contributed four points of his own.

“We’re like Batman and Robin right now,” Green said.

Which one of them is Batman? Green thought twice.

“Alright, we’re Batman and Batman.”

Green, indeed, is playing the part of Indiana’s superhero this month. But he’s not without his own fatal flaws. Miller still recognizes that with the good moments, come the ugly ones, too.

Green finished with four turnovers and had some head-scratching sequences, as he’s wont to do.

With a three-point lead in the final seconds, Indiana (19-15) was committed to fouling when Arkansas (18-16) took possession. The Hoosiers followed orders, and out of a timeout with 6.4 seconds remaining, Phinisee tagged Arkansas’ Mason Jones to prevent him from getting off a shot. Jones made both of his free throws to cut IU’s lead to one.

After Green was fouled on the inbounds — and made both of his free throws to put the Hoosiers back in front by three — he lost his man at halfcourt, failing to foul as instructed and allowing the Razorbacks to take one final heave.

Luckily, for the Hoosiers’ collective sake and Miller’s sanity, Jalen Harris’ shot missed the mark.

“Devonte didn’t foul, and obviously the guy got a shot off,” Miller said. “But we were definitely looking to foul. We’ve always tried to do that under 11 and between 5 and 11, and you learn. If that thing banks in, there’s some guys looking around funny. We got lucky.”

At the same time, the flip side is true, too.

With Green’s sudden emergence as a go-to scorer, the Hoosiers have gotten lucky to find a player able and willing to carry a scoring load beyond Langford and Juwan Morgan, who had 15 points Saturday. Although Green is still prone to mistakes, he’s done a better job of limiting their frequency, while making up for them with sizable scoring production.

With Indiana aiming for an NIT title this month, Green has become the player the Hoosiers can’t win without.

Saturday was just the latest reminder.

“He’s good,” Miller said. “He’s our most important sort of cog in the wheel right now. He’s making a lot of plays. He’s shooting the ball extremely well with great confidence. … He’s really turned it on here at the end. I think we’ve won six out of seven, and we probably don’t win any of them without Devonte’s ability on both ends of the floor.”

NOTES: Zach McRoberts scored only two points, but finished with three rebounds and was a team-best plus-12 in 10 minutes off the bench. … In scoring 15 points, Juwan Morgan increased his career total to 1,353 points. That moves him past Verdell Jones (1,347) for 26th all-time at IU. … Morgan has now scored in double figures in 27 of the 34 games he’s played this season. … De’Ron Davis posted 10 points and added three rebounds, one assist and a block, finishing with his sixth double-figure scoring effort this season.

117 comments

  1. Attendance of 12,200. Think I was parked closer to McDonald’s than Assembly Hall. Kind of surprised at the number kids, but nice to see. Noticed the women’s games seem to have more kids but not this time. Ugly game and as usual Indiana just skimmed by.

    1. Ron- Agree. Ugly game…Ugly play. Green jacking up poor shots. Bad decisions. Bad idea to foul with 6.3 left and a three point lead. Good crowd….Like I’ve always said, the following for the Indiana Hoosiers exceeds anything in the country.
      If we had a really high quality team, Glass could charge $200/ticket.

  2. Norwegian cruise ship thing going on right now….very, very scary. 1300 passengers …Ship engines failed. Stormy seas…Airlifting off passengers with 5 helicopters. Nightmare.

  3. Nice crowd. Good call to foul up 3. Should have done so again at the very end, but it worked out.

  4. Not a good call at all in my opinion…Let Arkansas take the desperation three. They weren’t in good position for the shot(near the sideline/corner) when Phinisee fouled. Get the board off the missed desperation shot, game over.

    Green rattled in the first free throw. Very bad decision to foul…New NIT rules give the automatic two shots.

  5. Let them take the corner 3? Or make them hit 2 FTs, foul, and then have to come full court for another shot at a desperation 3. All in less than 6 seconds.
    Coach got it right in my opinion.

  6. Why foul on a damn near half court shot then he gets 3 foul shots ?thats stupid if he makes it god bless him

    1. The plan was not to foul while shooting a three. The plan was to foul as soon as they touched the in bound pass. Archie is smarter than that.

  7. Clutch shooters wanted! Apply at Assembly Hall, Bloomington, IN.

    Maybe next year IU will be a team that learns how to put opponents away toward the end instead of just hanging on. I believe we missed our last six 3-point attempts in the closing minutes. And they were all great looks. Making just one of them would have closed out the game. But with the exception of Phin’s one great game-winning shot earlier this season, this team has not shown the ability to shoot well when they have the opportunity to close out an opponent. They maintain their poise well enough, but they just don’t make clutch shots.

    Good confidence-building win for next year’s returning players. We might as well win this NIT and build upon it for next year.

  8. Totally off topic here, but I don’t see the story listed on this site yet. Lilly King has to be IU’s Athlete of the Year, if not Athlete of the Decade. And I’m not talking just Female athletes, but both male and female athletes. Yesterday she won again, sweeping the 100 breast stroke four out of four years and setting another American record. She is simply outstanding!

    1. Lilly is the greatest! You are 100% correct! IU will miss her! But Swimming and Diving is a top program and IU has good talent coming back.

      1. Don’t ever forget Spark Mitz…..Won eight gold medals at Olympics. Seems almost five banners ago….40 years? 50 years? What’s the difference of major sports irrelevance at this point. We act like we’ve won national championships when we get off a Lunardi bubble watch….The bar has dropped very, very low sports fans.

        We’re talking breaststrokes while Purdue is talking Final Four.

          1. Why did I think eight. I must have been thinking of Aquaman, Phelps, needing eight to beat Spark Mitz?

  9. IU guys basketball squeaks by a middle of the pack or lower type big ten level team on home court. = IU for 2019-2020 middle of the pack or lower big ten team that may have another NIT bid that they probably won’t win this year. DD; seems to be good guy but his ceiling is probably a middle of pack center in big ten. Lack of athletic bigs is going to continue to be an issue for IU.

    1. Very hard to support the statement about Deron Davis since he hasn’t had good enough health to be able to play long enough to determine how good he can be.

  10. t-Agree. Need shooters. Need some athletic bigs. Maybe shooters even more so…..The only way the ‘world is right’ would be in the supremely rare event Romeo would return. Then, we could probably play through some lineup shortages…But I’d still like to find a transfer or h.s. holdout who can really shoot the ball.

  11. It is said that the Hunter kid who has not played this year due to injury is a GREAT shooter! And with his size (6’7″), he could be a game changer? We will have to wait and see?

    1. My thoughts exactly about Hunter. Also the ’19’ commit Franklin I understand to be more of a shooter than he is a scorer. Maybe just what the Hoosiers need. Also believe Durham from his Sophomore year to his Junior season will be even more aggressive on offense and display more improvement shooting than he successfully achieved from a Frosh to a Sophomore.

  12. If Race and Jerome are healthy all next season and are the players many thought them to be, there will be a lot of tears shed over this season and what it could have been. Especially, if Rob hadn’t been lost effectively for 2 months.

  13. Ifs….ands …or buts = more of the same = IU Football.

    Time to make some changes at the top of IU Sports. Give Archie one more season to prove his ability. If Vanderbilt and UCLA are on accelerated demands, why should IU be so patient? Injuries or no injuries, much of our season was rather inexcusable. I defended the losing 12 of 13, but there were certainly times it didn’t deserve defending. The team came out flat in many games and a coach can’t wait until four games left in a season to light a fire under some asses.
    Time for fresh blood and new thoughts (especially at the AD level). I’m really tired of watching Michigan and MSU settling into becoming two of the premier teams of the Midwest/NCAA tournament. Everybody marches deep into March except us with our yearly if this…and that…but this. Lilly King is a great swimmer. That’s our new answer for horrible football and a basketball program which hasn’t sniffed an Elite 8 for almost 20 years.
    Almost 20 years since Mike Davis(a.k.a. Worst Coach on Earth)…took us past #1 Duke and to a Final Four. At least all the closet Purdue fans here(including Dakich) are getting more mud to rub in our stagnant faces.

  14. Think and Hoosier during the Arkansas game ; I know what many think of Dakich BUT he and his announcing partner BOTH made observation that next years guard Trio would be VERY ,VERY good. One more point about the injuries this year; Someone who lives outside Indiana, the fog of severity to injuries made it difficult to ascertain how bad they were. Many wanted to dismiss the impact of the injuries..maybe this will add some clarity; Vanderbilt lost Garland for season, Situ was injured majority of time and Drew had a 20 game losing streak. Understandably Bryce Drew isn’t the coach Archie is BUT he WAS counting on those 5 star players to resurrect the program but instead those injuries were the Iceberg to Vanderbilt’s Titanic; and Archie had more players injured for multiple times.

  15. All sounds like a bunch of football tradition talk. Again, if this or that. Injuries are part of the game and season. Next season though less injuries there is a good chance there will be some kind of injury tweek or something. There usually is. I don’t wish it at all and wish IU an injury free season. I agree surely they will have a lot less injury issues. DD has made some good plays but has showed nothing more than average center in big ten. Now, that doesn’t mean he is not a good center. Rather, big ten centers and bigs are good and many are physical. Yes, h4h and PO it is a given IU needs players who can shoot the ball. Game changers more football tradition wishing and hoping talk. Yes, I know that Thompson though physically looked good can hardly hit a free throw.

    1. t- It sounds like Football defeatist syndrome….combined with a case of Crean mumps. But you are correct. The excuses are old and rather pathetic.

      If we don’t come out flatter than a crepe against OSU at the BigTen tournament, we are nowhere near back to anything a storied program….but at least we don’t get breaststrokes ….and more Dr. Chet explaining the anatomy of a 5′-4″ world class athlete or his man crush on Bryce Drew at Duke 2.0(a.k.a. Vanderbilt). I wonder if it has something to do with the Vanderbilt Mansion…? Isn’t that near Asheville? Maybe it was the Vanderbilt Mansion tourists taking up seats at the local wine tasting hot spots…?

    2. No t, this is not just a bunch of FB tradition talk. Yes, injuries are a part of the game, but tell me a FB team which can handle a 40% casualty rate of their key personnel? Look at the magnitude of the numbers and where they came from. It would be like on a FB team to have 40% of your 2 deep out when you compare a BB roster to a FB roster. Run those numbers and it would be like having 15-20 of your top 44 O&D players down. Plugging 3rd & 4th stringers into 1st & 2nd team roles, especially when their Freshmen, usually doesn’t work very well. That’s basically what Archie had to do when he was forced to plug Damezi and Jake into the lineups way before they were ready.

      Look at the rotation disruption. You know that Race and Jerome were on course to be in the 8-10 man rotation as well as Zack and Deron. You can’t have that 4 in particular to be incapacitated and go very far. Add in Rob for 2 months to the equation and it is a recipe for disaster. Don’t forget although Race, Jerome, and Deron were not 5* players, they were top 100 recruits if I am remembering correctly. That’s a lot of key injuries assuming I have forgotten anyone else.

      1. I’d be shocked if DeRon was a top 100…but anything is possible. I remember Steve McClain had a lot to do with the recruiting. It sure beats Jobe, Jurkin, Bawa, Guy-Marc, Perea, April…or Priller. But we have had nothing comparable to a UK big since Alan Henderson. Zeller was very good but his game had limitations in speed and finesse…and it showed against Syracuse.

        t is correct…We have lost numerous recruiting battles for key big men…many of which were from Indiana. OSU gets Oden. UK gets Trey Lyles…(and dozens of other phenomenal bigs). Plumlee brothers…Scott May’s son…Harangody goes to ND(years ago)….Purdue lands Caleb Swanigan….Matt Howard helping lead Butler to its back-to-back trips to a championship game….and many more I’m surely forgetting.

        DeRon was far better than the utter projects Crean was dead weighting to the roster(Zeller being the only recruit to save his ass from a 10-year disaster of epic proportions), but we have been coming up severely short on quality bigs for decades. Benson, Tolbert, Downing, Turner, Henderson…..Those days are gone…Hell, put a DJ White on this year’s roster and we’re still likely dancing. Give me a George Leach or a Jarrad Odle and we give teams a ton more fits.

        This isn’t about depth. This is about the quality of the first five on the floor and the sixth man. It needs to be higher. It’s very difficult to move the recruiting needle with the way neighboring programs have had such great March Madness success over the last decade. Over the last nine seasons(seven previous from Crean and recent two from Archie), 10 different teams from Conference Midwest Elite will likely near 30 collective Elite Eight appearances(along with many Final Fours) from 10 different Midwestern teams to our zilch.

        Injuries? UK has hardly miss a beat without Washington.

        Romeo needed higher quality talent around him…Yes, experience would have helped. A lights out shooter would have helped. But overall quality is still coming up short. Unlike Crean, Archie refused to kick guys off the team who didn’t meet his basketball standards. He honored commitments …He didn’t rip scholarships away from kids or gently push them to another school to bring in higher talent. It’s going to take another year or two to completely purge the holdovers and build his own team(meanwhile, we lose more ground to the new “elite” of the Midwest).

        1. Don’t think CAM can rip scholarships anymore. IU’s standard (couple of years ago) for athletics. ?

          1. These were sweet gentle pushes off the team when (a) another Dr. Dunkenstein with Abby Normal basketball IQ from the East was needing a roster spot…or (b) another Adams A-Hope project needed a place to tie his shoes.

            The end result was scholarship ripped…and teams broken/reset. Giving the next D-Wade his stage was always going to be more important.
            Archie could have done the same ….He could have found ways to get the holdovers out quickly. Probably could have kicked guys off for team violations as Crean did with Robinson and Davis. We’ll never know why Green was in the doghouse, but Archie is not the scoundrel who would do what the last holier-than-thou witch hunter do while passing the potatoes during Sunday dinner.

        2. I love how you compare Indiana losing half their rotation with another team losing a single player and imply that the two are the same.

          1. Garland now projected to go #4. I don’t get it. The less he’s relevant, the higher he goes!
            It’s sort of like how we see our dusty banners…

            Meanwhile, don’t look now but Kelvin is in the Sweet 16. Pretty easy to see why the Establishment wanted him out of Bloomington. The man can coach. We laid an egg against OSU. I guess it was only fitting that Kelvin shows Indiana how to handle those mighty Buckeyes….and the great Chris ‘Pouty-lips’ Holtmann.

          2. I’m not as obsessed with Bryce or Vanderbilt as you. Hell, I think I watched 1/2 of one of their games all year(probably one of the few televised)…I did see a good segment of their game where they took Tennessee to overtime(or was it double OT? Can’t remember).

            But back to the main point. They lost their MJ equivalent.
            We lost Phinisee and lost 12 of 13 games before he was back to nearing 100%. A dozen articles from highly respected local and national journalists (many of which work or have worked for the HT including one with ‘The Athletic’ named Dopirak and one on the ‘Indy Star named Osterman) were written with full emphasis regarding Phinisee being the difference-maker between losing and winning for this roster.
            Yes, there can be singular guys that important. We went into such territory to explain 12 of 13 losses without a present or healthy Phinisee in our lineup. I’m not sure if we would have ever plugged the leaky boat and the losing streak without him..
            It’s not as ‘thinkaboutit’ tried to explain. Though one player will account for a straight percentage of a roster or starting roster, his absence from said roster does not necessarily function as an equal impact. I mean, don’t we really know that? Lose your star quarterback…..and does it matter that all your receivers are just dandy? But if one or two receivers go down, maybe that star quarterback can still make the freshman down on the depth chart suddenly look pretty damn good.

            Percentage of injuries …and when they occur during a season certainly matter, but who is injured is critical as well. Certain teams are just not deep enough to sustain a key roster component removed. Maybe they win 1 of 13…or 2 of 12…or 4 of 10 without him, but it’s going to impact the team far more than a percentage equivalent. Who is so naive to believe all things created equal?

            You now how tacky Vanderbilt U. is…? They still have not pulled Bryce Drew’s bio and listing as head coach from the Official Vanderbilt Basketball page. Now that’s pretty sad.

          3. One of Drew’s few tweets remaining on his twitter account references this place. Now I’m an even bigger Drew fan! lol.

            Now we just need the bozo at Clemson to be found at a massage parlor…

            Chesterton and Valpo were always huge rivals….I should really maintain my hatred of all things Valpo. We saw them as geeks 50 years ago….Probably not much has changed. Far bigger community than Chesterton with a whole different demographic and rural feel than the more liberal and smaller Chesterton. We finally got the Alpo from Valpo in this year’s sectional….37 year drought over….exactly mirroring IU’s banner drought. Chesterton finally took down Valpo and won a sectional title. Yippee!

            We’ll make Alpo out of Valpo!

            I must say, Virgil Sweet, legendary high school coach of Valpo in the 60’s, was a unique character. Every Valpo basketball player was required to have a butch haircut(crewcut). …and then, of course, his methodical step-by-step instructions in shooting the perfect free throw had to be learned and mirrored by all.

            Chesterton? Hippies and weed smokers..and liberal speech and debate winners….Marching band champions…Great swim team. Chesterton was mixed into a melting pot of small business owners, teachers, lawyers, wealthy lake shore communities, commuters to Chicago….blue collar steel workers on the west side of town and in Porter, IN (kids attended CHS) many steel worker neighborhoods. Valpo was much more homogeneous….though still not a bad place…Just different in West Lafayette sort of way, Robbie Hummel.

          4. Too long….I drew it up that way just for you, Chester.
            Thought you might like it a Chester ton….

            Did you check out the ‘Belonging Company’ video(on the website in which I provided an embedded link above) of the couple from Australia now living in Nashville? Scary stuff…

            Wasn’t Australia used by Great Britain to send their degenerates and criminals back in colonial times? Drew should know better….

  16. BREAKING NEWS: Bryce Drew just hired as gift shop manager at Vanderbilt Mansion. This story will be updated.

  17. …so is DD “middle of pack center” or “average center” or “top 3 or 4 center”?…you’ve surrounded a bunch of varied thoughts…must be multiple choice…but then again it’s a blog and no points given for clarity…

  18. DeRon is a decent back-up center.

    Here’s how you determine mid-level from premier post player. Would Duke, UNC, Michigan or UK recruit him? Not even sure if Purdue would have thought DeRon was enough inside power/finesse/motor to be a starter.

    Hats off to DeRon for battling through a severe Achilles injury, but let’s not kid ourselves. Comparing DeRon to UK or Duke bigs…is like comparing Jordy Hulls to Isiah Thomas.

  19. What concerns me most is a good look at the schools that the top 100 players in the class of 2019 have committed to. Archie has signed one of them and our traditional rivals have signed several. Last year, when he signed Romeo, I thought Romeo had made it cool to play for IU again. But given how Romeo’s year turned out, it may have set us back. Even Archie’s brother, with all the speculation about him resigning or getting fired is out-recruiting Archie. Of course, a couple of Archie’s targets are still unsigned, but while he improved recruiting in his one and only class, I’m not seeing enough momentum to get us back amongst the top teams in the Big Ten. And I’m not seeing any Bigs on Archie’s target list. We need a pure shooter and someone who can take DD’s spot once he graduates. Archie can’t afford to embrace the IU Football model, which is to sign kids that can be developed. He needs a stable of four and five-star players every class. It may turn out to be the case when the dust settles on the 2019 class, but Archie needs to sign at least three 5-stars every class if he’s to get IU back amongst the elite.

  20. Haven’t played in a second weekend of March Madness since 2002. There’s really not much else you need to know. Getting close to two decades, gang. Buffalo, Liberty, Lipscomb…and Loyola might soon outmatch those dismal numbers.

    While other fan bases are glued to the television watching March Madness on the first and second Saturdays and Sundays of the Big Dance, we are glued to blogs dissecting the newest frog inheriting the stagnant program from the last toad.

    Marchie Madness…denied two years straight. Not what any of us expected after securing Romeo Langford. Luck, injuries, whatever….I thought three Brett Finkelmeiers , Morgan and Romeo could put us into March Madness. And then to be flat against OSU in the must-win game in Chicago? All the excuses in the world don’t work though we try…and try.

  21. IU will need a high quality transfer and one more ready-to-contribute recruit to be any better than middle of the pack next year. DD couldn’t jump before his injury. Who has ever seen him dunk the ball? He is cumbersome and prone to fouling. He is a back up center and those of you that think he will be one of the top centers in the Big 10 are incredibly optimistic. Perhaps he has a miracle transformation. He still can contribute for 15 minutes a game but will never be headliner. The bar is so low for IU basketball right now, that many are engaging in very wishful thinking.

    1. I’ll agree with most of Hoosier Hopeful’s assessment….concerning “wishful thinking” and low bars. But I would add that the bar was very low during the decade of “everything hinges,” “Hoosier Rising” and “the Movement.”
      It was low based on the quality of coaching we were forgiving/apologizing and accepting. It had also never found a lower bottom than the basketball IQ from some of the athletic phenoms/projects/”upside” talent.

      Archie is dealing with battling against the new elite programs of the Midwest. He’s also battling to instill a higher level of defensive tenacity and b-ball IQ in many of the holdover recruits who were very challenged in the aforementioned essentials.

      Injuries …or no injuries, Romeo was not placed into a situation where a team had savvy and chemistry already building/present. Empty cupboard in numerous ways…Empty of a premier post player. Empty of a lights out shooter. Empty a long established(starting in h.s.) b-ball IQ. Empty of true leaders who want to be accountable for more than themselves.

      All of our hopes were way overblown….I was also rather duped by Romeo Fever. I’m just thankful we are forever rid of carnival talk. Archie is a legit and genuine coach. He’s respectful to the media and doesn’t manipulate kids into ideologies or doctrines. He’s here to coach basketball and, hopefully, win over some kids who love the game and want to learn the game….and want to win beyond the $$$ on an NBA contract.

  22. If you would have told me Wofford’s 3 point shooter would have went 0 for 12 or 0 for 13 and only lose by 6 (and it was only 2 to 4 or so til end) I would have said KY would win by 20. Yo would think Wofford shooter would have at least went 3 for12 and maybe have beat KY…..Is exactly what IU men’s basketball thinking has become. If this or that…

  23. Not one Establishment announcer dared to mention the left arm push by a Duke player into the back of the UCF player on the free throw lane…allowing for the offensive rebound off the Williamson free throw miss…and what turned out as the game-winner.

    Another swallowing of a whistle so Duke can move on. Must have their Duke vs. UNC Final…

    1. Ran into this kid when he was in high school. Tavares Fl mall. Friendly and polite, Impressive. Believe he has a kid brother who will be as tall.

  24. Did a little research because of some questions regarding AM recruiting. So let’s look at his first shot at it not counting Romeo who we all aware of:
    Rivals 247
    JH 52 59
    RT 71* 86* *Before Reclassifying and injury
    DA 118 125
    RP 103 136
    JF 131 148

    Remember how many schools are competing for the top 100 – 300 players every year. Archie got a pretty good haul in his 1st shot.

    Just for reference
    DD 35 40
    JM 109 117
    JS 119 78 – weird how far apart the 2 services were
    CM 133 151
    AD NR 230
    DG NR 210

    1. Good, accurate and positive research. Proves what most of us already surmised about the affect early multiple injuries inflicted on the meat of the season. Coach Miller is doing just fine.

    2. Just tells me not enough top 100 kids….And if you can’t get top 100, you’ve got to go out and find a “specialist”….a marksman …or somebody severely under the radar who can splash the nets with his eyes closed.
      I’ve never seen so many net splashers from small schools than in this year’s NCAA tournament. Indiana is known for a long history of kids who can shoot the ball before they learn their ABC’s. It’s inexcusable to see an Indiana Hoosier roster this empty in the category of ‘shooters.’

      Even with Trayce-Davis coming in …and an improved DeRon, if the perimeter deficiency is not addressed, it will be a long season even if injury-free. Green is too erratic. Durham has improved but I’d never consider him a pure shooter. Phinisee’s duties in being an orchestrator and probing pg will still limit his perimeter totals. He has hit big shots but, again, I would not consider him to be “automatic.”
      Watch guys at the charity stripe. You’ll know a pure/automatic shooter instantly. Alford got mocked a lot…Probably pegged to be slower and less athletic than he actually was…and he certainly wasn’t NBA level talent, but what does a guy who can shoot the ball like Alford do for our team?

      This year’s team had everything the 2002 Final Four team had minus the lights out shooters. No Kyle Hornsby….No Fife…No Coverdale. Watch our Kent State game in the 2002 Elite Eight. We put on a clinic from the perimeter.

      This is what shocks me most about Archie’s early recruiting. A lot of empty weight on the bench. Can the Big & Tall Bench-warmers of
      Big Hair on the bench shoot the damn ball? And when did exploding party popper streamers become a hairdo (here’s our bench)? No Zeisloft coming off the bench. No Roth coming off the bench to warm up the stone cold Hoosier of party streamers. Archie has yet to nail down any lethal perimeter guys(even a transfer or a walk-on). Baffling. They are most certainly out there(as exemplified in this year’s NCAA tournament).

      1. Interesting you should mention the dearth of shooters H4H.

        Doing my little research project, I ran across an interesting analysis of Race. It was already rumored that Jerome was quite capable from distance, but what I read on Race was most promising. Appears he had quite a good perimeter game but was not afraid to take it to the rim as needed. If this is true, then it appears that Archie was moving quite heavily to address the known outside game issue for IU, but 3 of the players he recruited for this problem spent extensive portions of the year in the proverbial MASH unit and the grad transfer didn’t pan out quite as expected.

        Demezi was also recruited for his outside game, but was considered a longer term project not necessarily for immediate help as in the case of Race, Jerome, and Rob. Outside of Juwan and Romeo, I don’t think you could have encountered a more damaging series of injuries to a team at IU’s stage of development than what occurred this year. All this again speculation at this point which will only be proven right or wrong by how these 3 perform next year. If they perform as advertised, shed tears, this year’s team was primed for a deep run into ncaa’s

        1. I think Demezi is a bust….I saw enough sample set. I don’t know how he put up so many points in South Bend…or how many he jacked up in a game but he does not appear to be a prime time shooter.

          I’m not talking about lumbering bigs or wings who can, on occasion, step outside. Troy-types is not the fix.

          We need speed in the sharpshooters….Quick releases and quick legs, my friend. Quick releases and pure 100% butter bombs.

          Many of the new bloods are much like the old bloods. Athletic, long….but often bricklayers. Defense much improved…Length improved(though really no premier post player).
          Shooting remains very suspect and without firepower off the bench.

      2. H4H,
        Another thought on your continual lament regarding the lack of Hoosier born and bred basketball players at IU. There is something which has bugged me for a very long time and that is the quality of Indiana HS basketball. I reserve the right to be wrong, but I can’t shake the feeling that Indiana HSBB took a giant step backwards with the switch to a class based championship system as opposed to the traditional tournament. How would anyone have known how good some of the players were unless they were playing against all levels of competition?

        1. ^^^Great point and I’ve harped on it hundreds of times on this blog…and IDS’s Basketblog years ago. The IHSAA destroyed our basketball trademark. Blue ribbons for everyone is for losers.

          I always felt not playing against the best and, often, biggest schools limited proper evaluation of talent. Does Cody win a state title if he has to go up against Lawrence Central, North Central, Pike, etc?
          And more importantly, how much tougher and humble is he coming in as a freshman playing against deeper and very athletic teams?

          Much of the “shooters” trademark from Indiana was earned due to one, all-inclusive state tournament…Small schools often relied on a shooters and kids with more guts and gumption than overall size/depth. Research Scott Skiles…It’s the true “Hoosiers” tale far better than Milan. Watch a guy from little Plymouth High School with ice in his veins making the state finals his stage to seize.
          I will never forgive the IHSAA for taking such rare instances of underdog teams and uniqueness away from the fans of Indiana. It defined our basketball…It defined our love for the game and the equal opportunity it presented to all to share one stage.

        2. I haven’t looked at the data in a few years but several years ago (3 or 4) I came across a compilation of the states of origin of the players in the lineups of the top 25 basketball teams at the end of the regular season.

          California was, not surprisingly due to their population, #1 with 37 players. Number 2 was Indiana with 32 players. Number 3 was, as I recall, Texas with 17 players.

          It spread out after that.

          Indiana was second only to California. I think that is startling.

          1. I remember posting a link to an article showing the same data….Per capita there is no comparable basketball paradise.

  25. Based on some of the comments above, I’d say some folks’ expectations for IU Basketball have been greatly diminished. No one can predict the future, but it does not take a clairvoyant to see that IU is not gaining enough ground in recruiting to get the program back to where we all want it to be, at least not in the time frame we want it to get there. O.K., we all agree that Archie’s first recruiting class was an improvement relative to Crean’s last class. We were all really excited about Romeo’s signing would mean for the future of Archie’s recruiting. And Archie signed another five-star for this upcoming class, and that’s great. But it’s relative. Look at the signings of the elite programs. Not only are they getting higher rated players, they’re getting more of them. For Archie’s class of 2019 to be an improvement, for it to show momentum, signing Watford is essential, especially since the Alabama and LSU coaches have been fired. But Memphis is still out there, and their head coach is Penny Hardaway.

    1. Wofford could have easily taken down UK if not for a 1/1000 game from Magee…UCF came within an eyelash and push in the back not called on an offensive rebound to sending Duke home.

      The landscape is shifting. A lot of “elite” smaller schools emerging. It’s good for college basketball. Just hoping some can get over the hump…They’ve come so, so very close. Loyola in the Final Four last season…Could have easily been a UCF, Buffalo or Murray State this year.

      Lot of great players…Lot of great coaches out there. I think the pyramids are beginning to crumble. Kansas sure doesn’t look elite anymore. Duke and UNC..and UK are all beatable. Doesn’t mean one won’t grab another title…but the playing field is flattening. Many of the old traditional powerhouses are fading. The UK one-and-done farm system for the NBA really hasn’t equated to a net result major advantage. It gives those recruits a lot of showtime and exposure…but it hasn’t proven to be the top formula for “elite” or banners.
      College ball is moving away from elite. Simply too much talent everywhere. It’s good for the game.

    2. Po,
      I’m not so sure being realistic about the current state of IUBB is the same as diminished expectations. Archie’s first recruiting class plus Race was quite good indeed. It might not look so great with the one and done accumulations of say a Duke or Kentucky, but it may well compare very nicely a Villanova. Remember the success story at Villanova has not been built on one and done schemes but very similar to what Archie is trying to do at IU.

      I know a lot has been made about this year’s recruiting class with only TJD and AF. Unless someone leaves, Archie only had 3 slots max which makes a 5* and a 4* not such a bad haul. Yes, it would be nice to have another 5*, but to become Villanova-esque those classes will need to be balanced out a little, and assuming TJD may leave in a year or two for the nba, another 4* might not be so bad. Counting Race, there were six in Archie’s first recruiting class. Assuming Romeo leaves for the nba, that still leaves you with 5 and slightly out of balance down the road. Know college BB is a different world compared to even just a few years ago, but if you are going to build teams with Senior and Junior leadership, the classes have to be reasonably well balanced numerically speaking.

  26. North Carolina, Duke, Kansas, Kentucky, probably Louisville, maybe Gonzaga if they tried can either get a high Indiana HS recruit or make it really tough for IU to get a particular recruit. Add in Purdue, MSU, ND, Michigan. IU can not do the same in their respective states because those kids become locks for their respective schools if they are wanted. I Am TALKING ABOUT ELITES and not the players further down the chain that their may not be room for at the other states schools. Though Langford came to IU it was a battle and a couple things went down to make it happen.
    And yes, IU need shooters including bigs that when they shoot there is so much confidence that every shot is going to go in the basket.
    Watching March Madness successful players play with confidence, emotions, enthusiasm, make shots like they are going to make all of them, play with sharpness, explosiveness, like it’s habitat knowing what they are doing.

    1. ^^^Exactly. You could see the swagger in UCF…and Wofford. That’s what still disheartens me when watching us play. We don’t have the confidence and swagger. It’s not boasting …or making those cute three-finger gestures when hitting a triple…or flexing biceps when scoring on a put-back.
      Those things only come off as braggadocios individual expressions of gloat.
      Acting like you’ve been there before is swagger. Playing your ass off is swagger.
      I thought Archie would bring some real fire to the floor. You don’t have to be a tyrant of a coach to bring heart and fire. I’ve watched a lot of teams, small schools, in the tournament this year with rather subdued coaches…who play like they are fighting for the last rib bone on a starving planet.
      Where has the fire from IU Basketball gone? Did all the apologizing from the last decade, the obsessions with draft status…steal it? All I know is I miss it more than the gravy gone from the mashed potatoes.

  27. It’s also good for the game to have a few Goliaths…..Would we all love it as much without David vs. Goliath?

    Why does Indiana have to be Goliath? I’m not hung up on elite. We weren’t really “elite” when I fell in love with IU Basketball….watching a kid named Downing from Indianapolis…and a kid tough as nails from Goshen named Ritter soon to stun the world with their poise and precision against the mighty Bruins, Walton and Wooden.

    Just give me quality coaching, heart, and some signature grit and gumption..and the intelligent ball always a trademark of Indiana. And some shooters! Recruiting is certainly part of the equation but it’s not the only factor in defining Indiana Basketball. Elite is never a given …it’s a destination in doing your best everyday. Maybe there’s a blue ribbon at the end of the road…Maybe not. Let’s just honor what it means to play Hoosier basketball and we’ll be just fine.

  28. Maybe IU is trying to follow UCF success. Football first and basketball will follow? Good luck with that.
    Seriously,… I will temper perspectives some because teams like Wofford and UCF, Loyola, Indiana State with Bird among several can really look good in a one loss and done tournament. I think Knight said winning big ten was harder than winning the NCAA March Madness tournament.

  29. Lesser talented teams even with good shooting still have less margin of error than more talented teams given they are both well coached teams. I have heard more than one IU football coach say this.

    I doubt if any of the players from UCF or Wofford were very seriously recruited by major basketball league schools.

  30. Yes, but the tournament today isn’t the tournament of a 32 team invitational long ago….You still have to win six(seven if you’re the play-in) to win it all. You have five to simply get to the Final Four. Yes, you fluke your way in one or two games, but it’s pretty difficult to fluke your way through an entire region in this day.
    I still believe “elite” is a vanishing day in college basketball (football not far behind)…PED’s, recruiting via rankings/social media, and the simple vastness of information available creates assessing talent faster, getting to talent faster, etc. The tops of the pyramids are crumbling and the playing fields are leveling.
    Not to mention, it sounds like transfer rules are going to get even more relaxed …and a basketball transfer(not just grad transfer) will not have to sit out a year. Am I correct on that, Jeremy? I thought I heard that story on the radio the other night…but not much since. …It’s all Zion this…Zion that..Duke this…UNC that….blah…blah…blah. Watch out for Texas Tech..and Chris Beard.

      1. Pretty sure that’s what I was arguing….It’s much more difficult in ‘modern times’ to fluke your way deep into the tournament. I guess it’s possible with an extremely fortunate bracket, but it seems as if your chances at repeated upsets dwindles with each progression(more progressions with a doubled field compared to the long ago times when we won ‘most’ our banners).

        If Purdue gets to a Final Four, are we all willing to say ‘fluke’ due to match-ups and the obvious easiest region in the tournament(South region)? This will definitely be an example of Turdue-doo rather than cream rising to the top.

        1. Has someone used Turdue-doo here before….If not, can I Scoop copyright that?

          Put it in my West Lafayette-to-have-a-banner folder…

  31. Elite level recruits in my opinion = Entry level at 4.5 stars to 5+ stars. I am not just talking one and done.

    1. I guess I’m misinformed. I thought almost all 5+ stars are one-and-done. Where are those who aren’t? Did you need more than one hand?

      1. On average, there are 5 to 6 one and done players selected in the draft each year. 247 Sports has 27 players listed as ‘5 star’.

  32. To clarify, I will change elites to very good or excellent players that are difference makers for a team. Some characteristics include; bigs 6’8,” 6’9,” 6’10,”+ that can play defense, rebound, handle, pass and shoot the ball; point gaurds as long as healthy (R.P. will do), R.L. if he would stay 3 years, guards who can shoot shoot shoot, pass, handle the ball, and play defense and rebound a little or some. There are room for 3 star and borderline to low 4 star players. However, the nucleus of team needs to be (5 to 7 players) 4.5 or higher with a couple 5 stars.
    If well coached it gives higher odds for success.

    1. You are correct t,
      . . . and what are the characteristics of the bigs Archie is recruiting? Best examples Race, Jerome, TJD

    2. You spent a lot of time with Erector Sets as a child….

      Did Guy-Marc, Tijan Jobe, Peter Jurkin, Bawa Muniru, Hanner Perea, Jeremiah April…or Tim Priller “fit the bill.”

      How about Jeremiah Rivers, Troy Williams, Stan Robinson, and Devonte Green?

      How many stars was Jordy Hulls? For all his great qualities, legendary Bloomington name, and quick release, usually dead eye jumpers…a VCU press still ate him up. He was later pegged as the worst defender in college basketball in a Seth Davis SI piece.

      If only it were erector sets…..Final Fours would be ours.

      I used to love college basketball far more before all the obsessions with these rankings and high school overblown hype. I would often learn about recruits once they became Hoosiers. I would watch Knight hone their skills and turn very high talent into teams. There’s a lot of chemicals which simply don’t mix well together. There are different fits for different games. There is evolution in players. There are some who come in as freshman and never truly reach what many believed was limitless potential(see list above…e.g. Hanner “Hakeem the Dream” Perea).

      There are some 3-star talents who put tremendous amounts of work and blossom into perfection ..That perfection hits at about year 3 just before they become a lottery pick. Essentially, they were pretty raw and with low b-ball IQ and we get them as a one-and-done top talent in their 3rd season(e.g. Oladipo).

      There are a 1000 variables that will blow your erector set to the ground no matter how stupendous it looks on paper. Is the SEC an elite basketball conference? Is UK elite? In the last ten season, how many banners have they hung for the plethora of five stars who go through their revolving Erector Set.

      I agree that the talent(stars) need to be higher, but sometimes the stars need to align as well. One more season with Bryant in a Hoosier uniform…? One more season with Vonleh playing inside with Cody? One more season of Victor Oladipo? One more season of OG? Hulls without a bad shoulder against Syracuse? One ball teeters on the rim and falls through the nets for a champion…One ball teeters and tantalizes and drops off for the forgotten team which could have been.

      If it could only be an Erector Set. But it’s not. It’s a chemistry set…meets and erector set…meets the Cuisinart of the NBA luring kids away too soon. Banners are missed by eyelashes…and all the best formulas fall to doom while one lucky bastard remains standing at the end.

      1. I repeat….Even the great Isiah Thomas stayed two seasons for Bobby Knight.
        Love you Romeo…Love your potential….but you are no Isiah Thomas.

        The hype today revolving around many of the so-called superstars of college basketball is a mushroom cloud fueled by our 24/7 diet of 24/7 sports. It’s fueled by ranking services, YouTube, conference TV networks exploding into living rooms, ESPN, streaming 20 games at once, social media, Tweets, huge $$$ tied to shoe deals and uniform deals.
        It ain’t basketball anymore, folks. It’s dollars galore and a circus tent. Outside the tent awaits snake oil salesman(narcissism in a bottle), hookers, con artists, plate spinners(Rival & ranking services), promoters displaying the next Jabbar, Jordan and Magic Johnson before one college game is played.
        It’s an obscene freak show where a capitalist at UK forever sells it to our ears as perfectly o.k. Now it’s time to pay these 18-year-old kids a coach’s salary while they stand in the cafeteria lunch line?
        Did I mention gambling soon to make it all “Fake News” anyway? Who’s to say if you miss your next free throw, one million dollars will be in your checking account by the end of the day?

      2. Don’t forget…Cody was a lottery pick. He certainly was offered the bread. Here’s a synopsis (first 15 seconds of video) of draft night through the first six years of his NBA career.

  33. thinkaboutit- Allow me to further explain…This is not recruiting 101 in a nutshell. I’d like to think of it as recruiting101 in a nugget.

  34. H4H,
    I’m not sure if we are at opposite ends of the spectrum on this or not. Much of what you say regarding the state of IUBB prior to Archie I agree with. What I am saying, based on the players Archie IS recruiting, he is doing so with a very visible methodology. He has at this point signed 8 players who very much fit a specific profile of the type basketball player Archie wants: Romeo, Race, Jerome, Rob, Demezi, Jake, Trayce,, & Armaan. The bigs are, as t suggested, in the 6’8″ – 6’10” range in size, skill, and athleticism. We also have reason to believe Race and Jerome to be skilled shooters as bigs.

    Before the injury we saw Rob display an increasing ability to shoot well. Neither Demezi or Jake were expected to make immediate impact, but both showed flashes of what 2-3 years development could produce, lower tier players being coached up into consistent producers as you suggest. As for Romeo; Romeo is Romeo, a player built for the nba with the misfortune of coming to a team primed for a deep run into the ncaa’s, but marred by way too many injuries. Imagine how devastating Juwan and Romeo could have been to opposing defenses spread by potentially good shooters such as Race, Jerome, and Rob mixed with the TC holdovers starting to understand the CAM system.

    No, I think Archie is on the right track but temporarily derailed by a terrible run of injury misfortune which will hopefully only be for this season. Time will tell for certain. If things go forward as I believe it will, paraphrasing RMK’s comment about the hiring of Archie, “Should see some good basketball.”

    1. I don’t think we should make too much of Knight’s endorsement of Archie…..He saw the large upgrade compared to the last embarrassment. I believe “good basketball” merely meant a competent teacher in the classroom. There is good basketball and good coaching permeating all of the NCAA tournament. I’ve seen a dozen coaches who I think could function at IU just as admirably. But, not to beat the dead horse deader, we need a coach who can motivate and bring out a certain “it factor” in kids and team similar to what I see from a coach like Beilein (just one example….Brad Stevens was another).
      When Isiah Thomas came to IU, there were already plenty of stories of Knight being tyrannical. I read that Isiah’s brother insulted Knight and got in a shouting match with him when Knight was visiting Isiah at his home in Chicago. Yet, dozens of kids like Isiah wanted to experience whatever “it factor” this tyrant was selling and providing. Teams are always moving parts….and the genius of it all is the coach who can harness all the energy, disjointedness and ever-increasing distractions into something all want to be a part. Good luck with that. We make it sound as simple as an Erector Set. I tend to think it’s not so simple…I tend to think we search for a plethora of excuses when, even in the mirror of our own vanity, nobody can identify “it factor” or bottle it. Feel blessed it merely touches your shoulder once in a lifetime….

  35. Agree with hype of today….(I have given several examples).

    Without the Erector set you won’t be able to cook your Chemical nuggets thus making you sick. (low star player examples listed). = weak. I will take the Erector set and make a cooking grill and make a fire with flint and steel kit supplied in my Erector set and make a prime rib with a baked potato (higher star players). The coach is excellent to great in a healthy program with a nucleus of high level/star recruits with special skills. I will take those winning percentage odds.

    1. I like the idea of “special skills”….I think the recruiting trap is the fact many recruiting services are not ranking on savvy and gumption…and clutch ability. They are ranking in much the same manner the NBA places a Darius Garland as a top pick without ever playing 1/10 a college season.

      There are plenty of flaws in the Erector Set mentality. A coach really needs to do his homework. Maybe hire you to build him that grill.
      But what continues to fuel the fire? How do you recruit what is in a young man’s heart…and how much the success/winning of his team supersedes the attention/adulation/financial lures dousing the fires of the team’s success? Of course, you need talent to win. You also need fire and the quelling of “me first” desires.
      For all your building and all your gathering of the stars and the moon, you can’t force a kid to stay long enough for the sun and the rain to work into the earth of a team or the flower to bloom.
      We had plenty of talent to win banners under Crean. He lacked coaching ability …but even with his limitations, we’re playing at Final Fours(at that point it is often a crap shoot where luck …or simply guys being hot or cold can make a difference) if some had just simply stayed at IU one more season..e.g. Cody, Dipo, Blackmon, Bryant, Vonleh, OG. Any of those guys stay one more season, and our odds of Final Fours and championships increase significantly. But the NBA hype is simply too much …and too enticing.

      thinkaboutit- We are pretty much on the same page. But I don’t see Demezi making any bigger improvement than what we witnessed from
      Smith. Phinisee has enormous potential…but I still wouldn’t call him a premier point guard(e.g. Hagans) or a natural scorer.

      Bottom Line(and maybe the most troubling thing more troubling than injuries): This team did not bring a winning attitude in many of their games. They often brought the same aloofness as witnessed under the last coach. They controlled their own destiny going into the BigTen tournament and they spent the first 20 minutes flatter than pancake batter on a cold griddle. Is it because they’re all not Archie recruits? Is it because Archie can’t motivate the way some coaches can? Is it because certain guys on our roster are merely looking ahead in the self-serving basketball times we live? I don’t know how any deluxe Erector Set fixes a team without collective purpose or genuine deep passion to win. Banners are not made of paper. They are textiles of strong cloth woven with heart and desire.

  36. Archie is getting some players he wants. Let’s not pretend he’s getting all the players he wants and they are going to be stars as we do in football. Archie is also getting some players as to what he can get. The one’s he wanted went elsewhere. However, what is he to do? Archie is trying and working at it.

    1. What more could he do? He could be competitive by creating fake classes, invite prostitutes for recruits visits, develops closer relations with shoe companies allowing easier funneling money to targets and probably more creative approaches we don’t know about. CAM has a plan and it will either work – or not. Let the man work.

      1. ^^^That too…Funny and true. Hearing anything about fake classes at UNC during this tournament? When it comes to the untouchable UNC…or Duke…or Kansas…or UK, sh__t never hits the fan.
        It only hits the fan for a guy who makes a 3-way phone call in the hillbilly hills of “what have you done for me lately” Indiana. It’s all become a farce of dollars and protectionism for those tied to the programs and the network moguls working to protect the “elite” schools closest to their own hearts. “Elitism” now stops many from ever having the chance at becoming elite.

  37. Let’s not get lost in semantics. When we reference IU getting back to being amongst the elite programs, I think we’re referring to programs that compete for Big Ten Championships every year, make it to the NCAA every year, and occasionally make it beyond the Sweet 16 in the tournament. Isn’t that the goal of IU Basketball? Isn’t that why Glass is paying Archie $3.5 million per year? How long is the Hoosier Nation going to wait for those goals to be realized? Two more years? Five more years? The first indicator of a program’s trajectory is the quality of the incoming recruiting class. Archie’s first two IU recruiting classes are good and they should produce more successful seasons going forward. But in relative terms, that’s not saying much, and his first two recruiting classes certainly don’t project IU Basketball returning to elite status any time soon.

    1. Po,
      Don’t normally disagree with you that much, but I do think Archie’s first two classes project a lot. The recruits possess the perquisite abilities Archie is looking for, chiefest amongst them is that they want to come to IU and be a part of what he is trying to do. Also see in each a fair amount of basketball IQ and a willingness to play the hardnosed defense they know Archie will expect. I hate to keep harping on this, but I don’t think we will see the true fruits of his labors until we are able to see Race and Jerome on the floor at full speed. If it pans out the way I believe it will, then we will see what was missed this year to some very terrible misfortune which includes not just RT & JH, but Rob, Deron, Zack, and others.

  38. Correct, except you leave out a couple things. In addition occasionally make it to final 4. In addition win NCAA March Madness tournament once in a great while (every 10 to 15 years) with maybe even a back to back. And of course I don’t think that is even worth 3.5 million per year as I think it is all overpaid and perspective has been lost long ago.

  39. ^^^Agree with t. It’s not worth 3.5 million per year…and “perspective” was lost long ago.

    The true crime of putting elite program status on perma-hold no matter how much “elite” level talent was recruited or acquired via great timing/fortune(Zeller), was the promoting of ideologies over coaching competence. That day is, thankfully, over forever. It’s now back to basketball. We can only hope that it all meshes ….and talent links with the competence now found in the classroom of maple.
    Imposters and puppets danging from the strings of the NBA “upside” are gone. It’s about basketball again at classroom McCracken. We are no longer on perma-hold status. Teams can be built. Inbounds plays actually work. Defense is actually played. Not teaching the game is not a “style of play.” Ideologies are not a “style of play.”

  40. Lol. Now, T.Miles has perspective. “I am going to hang out with my wife and kids and have a cold Coor’s beer.” With a buyout of 2.52 million and reporters talking about the last couple of weeks being a hard time for T. Miles. I am sure there are many who would like to get fired with such a buyout package. Plus unlike many others who lose his or her job T. Miles will have several/many opportunities as to when, where, and what he decides to do.

  41. Would Hoosier fans be all that upset if prostitutes, fake classes, funneling money, shoe money etc etc (I agree there is the unknown). Always been that way. If championships were won??? Or would they be like other fans and quietly turn their heads. I don’t see, hear, smell, feel, and know nothing. Unh? What? Duh? Who? Where? When? Duh? I’m going to the pep session to celebrate our championship.

  42. T Miles was coach for 7 seasons…also Archie IN his 2nd recruiting class ..Crean Leftovers …Durham, Smith, and Moore. Smith showing what he is and isn’t during game with Wichita State.Smith is a jumper and a runner and basically a track star and Moore is the Invisible Man. Sadly if Archie doesn’t “crean” the latter 2 they will be as much dead weight next 2 years as they are this year . For all the playing time Smith has gotten other than Michigan State , he really hasn’t showing much progress and Moore hasn’t appeared on the floor to KNOW if he has progressed. hopefully Forrester and D. Anderson can grow over the off season.

  43. Buyouts/ Arkansas
    Bielema or ever how you ever spell his name = 11.2 million
    Anderson = million per year for each year left on contract

  44. D. Anderson looked like he belonged at Indiana State level in Mo Valley in high school state tournament (espn 4 star @ 80). He may have a better chance to jump over the moon. However, not only does he not shoot that well even though that was his strength in high school neither can he jump that high either (that is high enough to jump over the moon).

  45. A.M. better get out both, his childhood Chemistry and Erector sets. Thomas Edison is not using the Edison House in Fort Myers, Florida anymore. Maybe, the coaching staff could go there and figure something out.

        1. Ron- Have you ever been to the The Vinoy Renaissance Hotel in St. Petersburg? I love that hotel…Some really pretty historic homes near the hotel within walking distance.
          If you ever go to the Vinoy, make sure to request to stay in the original section of the hotel(not the tower).

      1. Somebody needs to invent the light bulb real soon because it ain’t comin’ on in Hoosier Basketball.

        I’ve been to the Ringling mansion, Ca’ d’Zan, near Sarasota. I thought it was pretty damn cool. He built his own friggin’ art museum on the property. Beautiful marble terrace overlooking Sarasota Bay…I was wondering if Crean put in an offer yet…?

        Most impressive in the states(in my humble opinion) was Hearst Castle near San Simeon/Big Sur…Absolutely gorgeous. Had the most wonderful tour guide. Literally stumbled upon the place driving the coast of California. We saw some very low key road signs and were lucky to find it open for tours….

        Home of James Madison, Montpelier, in Virginia is also beautiful(beautiful drive)…Visited it while under restoration. It was bastardized by the duPont family, but it was being sized down and brought back to its original, glorious earlier state.

        Many others …GW’s Mount Vernon….Jefferson’s Monticello home.

        And then there’s my old man’s dream home…Yet to see anything like it. Never will.

  46. Yes, Edison House is neat; thinking about Edison and Ford and families there plus Rubber trees and all the old stuff. Naples Florida is a bicycle friendly town.

  47. I wonder if Duke basketball program benefited in any way from the false research reports which Duke University paid 112 million claims settlement.

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