Indiana announces Schilling’s departure #iubb

The Indiana University men’s basketball team made a coaching staff shakeup official on Thursday morning.

IU coach Archie Miller announced that assistant Ed Schilling “will not remain as an assistant coach for the Hoosiers and will look to pursue other opportunities in basketball.”

Reports first surfaced on Wednesday night of Schilling’s departure, which the program confirmed in a release.

“I appreciate Ed for his hard work and dedication to our program and wish nothing but the best for he and his family,” Miller said. “His contributions were extremely beneficial to what we are trying to accomplish.”

Schilling joined the Indiana staff upon Miller’s arrival in Bloomington two years ago on the heels of four years as an assistant coach under Steve Alford at UCLA. The Lebanon native previously worked as a head coach at Wright State, as well as an assistant at UMass, Memphis and with the New Jersey Nets. Schilling was a high school head coach at Western Boone, Logansport and Park Tudor, where he coached former Hoosier Yogi Ferrell.

“It was a blessing to have the opportunity to return home to my family, friends and high school coaching comrades. I’ll forever be appreciative of Indiana University and the fine IU Athletic Department and Basketball Program,” Schilling said in the release. “I’m looking forward to my next chapter in God’s plan.”

119 comments

  1. Reading between the lines, it looks like he was fired. And taking nothing away from Shilling, this looks like an opportunity to make an upgrade, perhaps in both recruiting and/or player development.

    1. I think the world of Wittman but I would lean toward young and energetic on the recruiting trail. Lots of guys his age retire simply because of the recruiting demands.

    2. If you have 4-5 $million to add to the basketball budget, then do it! Randy is a Pro’s Pro. The NBA will use him!

  2. TJ, no I don’t. I can’t see Randy Wittman taking a job as an assistant coach for any college basketball program.

    The primary issue will be the philosophical alignment with Archie. This second issue will be his ability to recruit. One of Crean’s Assistant Coaches was poached by Louisville some years ago because he had earned a reputation as an excellent recruiter. Archie can’t be satisfied with his program’s performance in recruiting. Too many top-ranked HS kids are choosing other schools over IU. None of us know exactly why, but the bottom line is that IU is not getting enough top-shelf talent to compete for Championships. That needs to change, starting with the class of 2020.

  3. Reading an article on RJ Barrett in the current issue of SI yesterday. It talked about a conversation RJ had with his father when he was a young teenager. After telling his father that his goal was to play NBA basketball, he and his Dad created a plan. Part of that plan was to make sure RJ qualified to get offers from the college basketball programs that would be best in helping him prepare for the NBA. After discussing the criteria, RJ created a short list of schools. IU was not on that list. And that’s the problem. IU is probably not listed in the top ten programs for the majority of top players coming out of HS. Either that changes, or The Hoosier Nation better get used to the results that we’ve had for the past ten seasons.

  4. My guess is that Archie’s criteria will be the following:
    1. Strong ties/relationships in the state of Indiana to improve recruiting
    2. Experience in the NBA
    3. Someone known to help improve offensive performance

    You consider why Memphis and Michigan hired the men they did, and you can see the rational. Hire a coaching staff that can recruit the best talent based on their perceived ability to help the kids make it to the NBA. That’s what it’s all about now.

    1. I’m betting the Memphis program is going to have immediate success…followed by NCAA sanctions.

      Memphis always ends up being sanctioned after their latest ‘hot new coach’ brings them into the spotlight.

  5. Then Po….Calbert would be a strong contender using the criteria you listed. 13 years in NBA , Big Ten ALL time leading Scorer. Asst Coach at St Louis Univ with 2 trips in 4 years to NCAA and now coaching in NBA developmental league.

  6. I see the commentary with a heavy recognition that certain schools seem to be a pipeline to the nba and that influence weighs upon the destinations for top HS talent. We see the obvious contenders for the talent and that both Memphis and Michigan want to get in on the action. The question is, based on what we have seen thus far, will the attracting of all the top talent equal ncaa championships? Since going wholesale into this approach it hasn’t worked out very well for Duke or KY in terms of championships won.

    In the competition for all the top talent, has gaining top rated recruiting classes and winning championships now become mutually exclusive? In other words are you giving up championships in order create the hoopla of the schools where all the nba bound talent go to prepare for the next level?

    1. I will be very surprised if the new Michigan coach is successful. Not many people do well in those circumstances.

  7. Schilling departure is not a negative for IU men’s basketball program. Not a bad thing at all. However, before and after Schilling departure IU men’s basketball was and still remains turbulent and unstable regarding recruiting and play on the floor unless simply trying to achieve mediocrity.

    1. All this nonsense about recruiting. When Archie started recruiting Brooks, with Schilling’s help, he was not interested in IU. He then got very interested. It was close with KY. We lost the battle. So what. No one wins them all.

      Then at the last minute Archie
      goes after the 2 guards. One
      selects Memphis over IU, the
      other NC over IU. Both
      seriously considered IU. IU did get the best player in the state, plus another top 3-4-5 in the state, plus a top 100 6’11
      center with at least 2 years to
      play. That is good recruiting, not perfect, but good! Let’s see what 2020 brings!

      1. Brooks became interested in IU when Miller was named coach, since ES and Brooks’ dad obviously had a relationship. The Watford and Quinones pursuits were not ones where IU was ever in a position of strength, and the results of those recruitments confirmed that. The two Indiana kids are very good players, but it remains to be seen how much either can provide immediate help. And it’s clear that Brunk’s high school rating is meaningless given his play at Butler, which was pretty underwhelming. No need to push a panic button, but the realistic view here is that it’s still a squad with many more question marks than answers.

        1. At this stage of the season every school but MSU is more ? than answers! Is this your first rodeo? Not mine, this is #60! Expect the unexpected!

          1. No, been watching for decades, which is why I know how fragile the program is. If you’ve been watching that long, you should know that, too.

  8. There’s an excellent article on The Daily Hoosier, that outlines the needs that need to addressed in hiring the new assistant coach,

  9. Yea, TJ, Calbert might fit the bill. But he’s been out of the state for a long time.

    think, I don’t understand your comment, “Since going wholesale into this approach it hasn’t worked out very well for Duke or KY in terms of championships won.” Both KY and Duke have won national Championships since increasing their focus on recruiting one-and-done level talent. Since 2015 Duke has won a Championship, been to two Elite Eights, a sweet 16 and the round of 32. And how many times have the been ranked #1 in the country since then? I think most Hoosier fans would swap IU’s record with Dukes’ record over the last five seasons.

    Kentucky went “wholesale one-and-done” earlier than Duke and since then they’ve won a national championship, lost in the finals, been to another final four, a Sweet 16 and two Elite Eights. I would never want Calipari to be IU’s coach, but I’d love it if IU Basketball had his record of 305 – 71 over the last ten years.

    I’m not saying that every kid on the roster should be a one-and-done level talent, but having two or three guys that will be lottery picking after one or two seasons in college would put IU back amongst the elite BB programs in the country. Until they get rid of the one-and-done rule, a college basketball team has no choice but to recruit those guys.

    As for Memphis, Chet may be right. Memphis certainly has the reputation for running a dirty program. But I’m betting Penny believes he does not have to cheat in order to attract the top talent to Memphis. I believe he’s selling his ability to prepare kids to be NBA lottery picks within two seasons in college. Who needs to risk cheating if you can convince kids they’ll be multi-millionaires in a year or two?

    1. Po,
      Not so fast there my friend. If you go back and look at the records, especially for Duke, since selling out to the one and done record is not so good. Since 2014 Either Duke or KY has recruited the #1 or #2 classes each year. To date only Duke has the 2015 championship, which would not have been possible without a dominant senior PG.

      KY has had either a #1 or #2 class since 2008 and has only the 2011 championship class to show for such lofty recruiting. KY’s championship was dominated with one and done players, but it hasn’t worked out well for them since then. Based on the continuous amount of #1 or #2 rated classes, I would say they have not got much for their recruiting efforts.

      1. It hasn’t? UK has been a perennial final 8 contender in nearly all years since Cal arrived. Most people recognize that you want to be in a position to play for a chance to get to the FF, and that it’s about the draw and some luck after that. UK and Duke have both done that. The 1&D era will moderate with immediate draft eligibility, but UK and Duke have positioned themselves consistently well with the strategies they’ve put in place.

        1. I don’t disagree with your assessment BD, but since totally selling out there has been a drought of banners for both schools. It is especially noticeable for Duke, whereas for KY, they have been accustomed to top rated classes since Cal got there, but only one banner to show for all the talent. Even Joe B Hall managed to get a banner, all the while being a nba talent producing powerhouse.

          I think when you sell out to the one and done philosophy, it comes at the cost of experience. No better place for this to be displayed than in the tournament. Lot’s of high powered personnel, but a scarcity of banners to show for that much talent. Kind of like the Atlanta Braves baseball team for several years, a hall of fame pitching staff, and only one World Series to show for it.

          1. UK under Joe B. wasn’t an NBA talent producing powerhouse. And he won one title. That’s it.

          2. Based upon recruiting Kentucky has dramatically underperformed under Calipari. They have a handful of lottery picks every year but, after sleepwalking through the SEC, they end up losing out to lesser teams in the tournament again and again.

          3. Ron, while the Cats put up gawdy numbers, particularly in the hapless SEC, it has to be frustrating for the fans to have a team full of one and done lottery picks and almost never seal the deal.

            They often go into the season as overwhelming favorites and usually come home empty handed.

          4. Here is a little trivia that is SO Kentucky basketball.

            In 1954 the Cats were undefeated headed into the post season. The NCAA learned that 3 Kentucky players has graduated the previous season and had not attended classes that season. They were banned from post season play and Adolph Rupp decided to skip the tournament without his play for pay players.

            Some things never change.

        2. Bear, neither Duke nor KY have been as good as Nova in the Tourney over the last 6-7 years. But on draft night they flaunt the bling. While Nova lifted the trophy! Which would you prefer for IU?

      2. Po,
        PS on that for Duke, I used 2014 as the sellout date for Duke. Prior to that time, other than one #2 rated class, most of Duke’s recruiting was respectable (in the top 20), but not very many top ten classes.

  10. Just follow the Villanova – Virginia – MSU pattern and AH capacity will have to be expanded/replaced.

    1. I hope not. I loathe those mega arenas. One of the worst venues in all of college basketball is the Dean Dome, IMHO. You can’t see a thing from the outer 20% of the seats.

      On that note, a friend had tickets to the Maryland/UNC game during one of the Tar Heels title years. Terrible seats. We got there early and sat courtside taking pictures. Dick Vitale chatting with us all. Nobody came for the seats until a moment before tipoff. As we were venturing toward the stratosphere a fella I had earlier talked to made eye contact and gestured toward 4 seats next to him. We sat down. The guy said he has season tickets but they are terrible. He noticed no one ever sat in these seats. He sat there all season. We watched the game from the third row under the basket. Kudos to the guy for spreading the wealth.

    2. IU will be in SSAH for the next 20-25 years, so I wouldn’t set my heart on anything new. When there’s a new building, it isn’t going to be any larger in capacity than the current arena, which they’re having trouble filling. The waiting list for tickets isn’t nearly what it used to be, either.

        1. Not based on either IU fan support or the clear trend in new stadiums, where venues are getting smaller, not larger. It might not shrink and it will be a long time before it’s even contemplated, but the next building won’t have more seats.

      1. Bear, your logic is lacking. If you are having trouble filing AH, but still have a waiting list, then you are filing the Hall!

        1. There are thousands of empty seats because existing ticket holders don’t want to attend. Why build more seats when you know they’ll not be filled? That’s the only logic you need to understand.

          1. If the AD knew he could sell 100,000 tickets a game but only 15,000 people would show up construction would start tomorrow.

  11. I’m in total agreement about a dome. But a 22k seat RMK INDIANA Fieldhouse(design)would be most accommodating to Hoosier fans.

    1. I’m willing to take a bet that the RMK Fieldhouse will never be built…unless he buys the naming rights.

        1. 3 banners guarantee it. If the need for all encompassing is the goal then make it McCracken-Knight. Nothing wrong with ‘ultimate’.

          1. They just did a major renovation. Assembly Hall bears the name of the benefactors who subsidized that. That’s done. Currently, neither Knight nor most IU fans are very interested in his name being on anything. Certainly some are.

            By the time such a thing would even be possible his name will ring the sound of Claire Bee, Dolph Shayes, and Hank Iba in most fans minds.

            Rick Pitino was pretty successful. His name will never be on anything, either. Like RMK, he put a lot of effort into burning bridges.

  12. Wait a minute guys. I’m not saying that both Duke and Kentucky have not underachieved given the quality of talent they’ve recruited over the last five seasons. Duke should have won the national championship this year with the studs they had on that roster. But that’s a different discussion. The original debate was about whether IU should be better signing one-and-done level talent, like Duke and Kentucky have, and as Memphis is now demonstrating. And the answer, in spite of Duke and Kentucky’s relative underachievement, is YES! Every sane Hoosier Fan would gladly trade Duke’s or Kentucky’s record for IU’s record over the last ten years. Both programs have been vastly more successful than IU Basketball over that period of time.

    Until they eliminate the one-and-done rule, I think the right mix of talent for a college basketball team that wants to challenge for a national championship consists of two or three one-and-done level talents playing with a solid group of experienced roll players.

    1. Po,
      Are you saying you would rather Duke and KY’s record over the last 5 seasons versus Villanova or Virginia?

  13. lol. IU men’s B.B. fans and football fans almost always make excuses for mediocrity in both programs by how everything is cleaner than the more or most winning programs. If the same things were implemented into winning IU programs whether clean or unclean the Hoosier Nation would be proud. That goes for way more than a decade/10 years.

    In 30, 40, or 50 or a 100 years build a gym for B.B.

  14. The waiting list for basketball tickets at I U is what drives the donor contributions, if the people on the waiting list are willing to make a substantial donation to the I U Varsity Club they won’t be on the waiting list for tickets. Naming rights to any I U arena or building is going to have to meet one of two requirements or maybe both, one a large donation that will need to be 30% or more of the structure cost or have a very high ranking administrative position at I U. I would think the Simon Family hopes after their large donation for the renovation of Assembly Hall, that the AH is used for a number of years, I know I would if I were in their position. I don’t see the RMK Arena will happen, by the time for a new arena most of the decision makers won’t even have a memory of RMK, its the what have you done for me lately thinking. The most immediate need is for the I U Men’s Basketball to start winning and return to the rankings on a consistent basis within in the next two to three years.

  15. IU studied the “new vs. renovation” question extensively, along with the question of capacity. The initial renovation of AH had four versions, three of which reduced attendance, while the fourth increased it slightly. And that was nearly 15 years ago. The more recent studies all capped capacity at the current level. The bigger issue is whether IU will continue to keep the student allotment so high, as there’s pressure to reduce it to open seats up to public demand.

  16. As Duke has been mentioned, let’s keep in mind Assembly Hall is much, much larger than the facility Duke plays in. In fact, it is nearly twice the size.

  17. think, that wasn’t the question. You moved the goal posts during the game. Of course I, like all IU fans, would love for IU to have won a championship over the last three seasons. But whether with a couple of one-and-done stars, a group of experienced Juniors and Seniors, or a combination of both, Archie needs to recruit a greater number of more talented players. I think Shilling’s departure signals that Archie recognizes that and is making moves to fix the problem. But fyi, in the last five years, eight Villanova players have been drafted into the NBA, four of them in the first round. In the most recent draft, three Virginia players were drafted. Two in the first round and one in the second round. Yes, I’d like that to happen every year with IU players.

    1. Po,
      Didn’t mean to shift the paradigm on you, but yes, Villanova and Virginia are putting players into the nba on a regular basis. However, you are not seeing them with top 5 classes every year either. What I am wondering is if since the wholesale sellout to top 5 classes every year by certain schools, that it may come at the cost of hanging banners. Reason for the concern is the schools raking in the multiple highly rated player are who we keep getting compared to, but the Villanova and Virginia’s of the world are hanging the banners with lower rated classes.

  18. Congrats to Thomas Bryant for his new NBA contract. Three years and $25 million should give him some financial security. And it is especially impressive given that he was a 2nd round pick who got cut after his rookie season. Looks like he has matured into a talent that can contribute in a significant way. I wish him the best and hope he has a nice long professional career.

    Another Crean-recruited player that has made it in the NBA.

    1. Wasn’t it about Crean’s 5th recruiting class before he signed a guy who made it to the NBA?

      Archie sent a player to the league from his very first recruiting class.

  19. T. C. = 0 National Championships. A couple big 10 regular season championships and no tournament threat.
    A.M. = 0 Championships and not much going on. However, it remains to be seen.
    Everything else is insignificant. Just daydreaming.

  20. Wondering if anyone has heard anything about Archie having any interest in Arizona’s Junior guard, Alex Barcello transferring from AZ? He was a top-100 recruit coming out of HS and known for his three-point shooting ability. One could argue that after leaving Sean’s program after two seasons Barcello may not want to play for his brother, but if it’s about playing time, IU could be an opportunity for him in the 2020/2021 season.

    Yea H.C., Marquette making it to the final four was all Dwane Wade. Just like IU winning the 1981 National Championship was all Isiah Thomas! Neither of their coaches had anything to do with it.

    But who “discovered” Dwyane Wade and got him to Marquette? Wade had three scholarship offers coming out of High School; Illinois State, DePaul and Marquette. He was not a highly coveted recruit, but he magically transformed himself into a basketball superstar. Sounds similar to Victor Oladipo, another overlooked kid coming out of High School who magically transformed himself into a star while playing for Tom Crean.

    1. Or Tijan Jobe or Peter Jurkin or Max Hoetzel or Jerimiah April or Tim Priller or Guy-Marc Michel or Bobby Copobianco or Bawa Miniru.

      We all know there were a whole lot more floaters in the punchbowl than diamonds in the rough.

      Even when he got touted recruits sometimes they never found their way onto the floor. See ‘the Movement’.

  21. Wade possessed the magic. Crean has got lucky 2-3 times and no banana. Sing his tone deaf praises. It’ll be a solo.

  22. Chet, you could say that about any college basketball coach in America. They’ve all recruited players that turned out to be duds. And obviously, when you’re trying to rebuild a program that your predecessor turned into a dumpster fire, you take some risks with the players you recruit.

    I thought facts were important to you guys. Obviously not when they conflict with your personal bias! Fact: Two time Big Ten Coach of the Year! Fact: Two Big Ten Championships within three seasons. Fact: Three Sweet 16 appearances and a Final Four. Tom Crean must be the luckiest man to ever coach a college basketball team!

    1. Sure, they’d be recruited…to Winthrop. Or High Point. Except for Bobby C. none of those guys would be recruited by any other P5 school.

      Austin Etherington was a dud. Those guys represent irresponsible recruiting.

      I respect that you remain enamored with CTC. I mean…enjoy. He’s still around. The SEC should prove to be easy pickings.

      1. Chet,
        I’m not particularly “enamored,” with CTC, and felt he had many shortcomings, but I am also not blind to the catastrophe he inherited. He succeeded in making IUBB relevant again if in an abbreviated form which can be attributed to some of his shortcomings. As for recruiting blunders, let’s not forget that not even RMK was immune to his fair share of “Winthrop or High Point caliber recruits. Lastly, let’s not forget the one team which nearly derailed the much vaunted ’76 team was a SEC team. Don’t take what’s going on in SEC basketball lightly, as much as I hate to see the conference dominate everything, I do realize the upswing on the court as well.

        1. TIA, The ’75 team WAS derailed by an SEC team and it landed a friend of mine on the cover of SI for his performance for the Cats.

          It was also 44 years ago. SEC basketball was in something of a mini heyday. C. M. Newton was at Alabama. Ray Mears at Tennessee. Kentucky was flying high with what was then considered their best recruiting class ever.

          Out of curiosity, give me the names of a couple wcholarship recruits who were comparable to Bawa Miniru or Tijan Jobe. I followed the Hoosiers closely and often had friends on the team during the RMK years and I can’t think of a single one.

          1. Yes Chet, I know that KY knocked off the ’75 team due to a severely limited Scott May trying to play with a recently broken arm. I was referring to the near loss in the ’76 season in the tournament to C.M. Newton’s Alabama team. As for the mini SEC heyday, let’s remember something, since MSU last won the championship in 2000, the SEC has reeled of 3 unanswered championships. Granted, they were on the strength of Florida’s back to back champions and KY a few years ago, but the B1G hasn’t hung any banners in nearly a generation.

            As for naming names of 18-22 year old players at the time who shouldn’t have been given or offered a scholarship, I don’t do those things. I may say the kid shouldn’t be starting, but I’m not going to denigrate a young athlete in such a way to say they don’t deserve a scholarship. What I will say is, if you go back and look at the rosters, you will find some players who didn’t see the floor very often, even under RMK.

          2. TIA, very true…but. You can’t judge the SEC as a conference based on a couple Florida teams and Kentucky any more than you can evaluate the American Athletic Conference based on Wichita State or the Horizon League based on Butler or the PAC* of the 60s and 70s based on UCLA.

            There are always outliers.

            Pretty sure the 60+ year olds questionable recruits of RMK would not be offended by the mention of their names…at least the ones still alive.

            No offense but I don’t think you can come up with any names that fit the criteria.

          3. Chet,
            No, but I can evaluate the B1G performance since 2000, no banners.

            As far as certain players from the RMK tenure, as I said before, go back and look at the rosters from that time period. He had a lot of great players, but there were some at the end of the bench, not so hot.

  23. Mark Haymore was at the end of the bench. He transferred to UMass and became the Atlantic 10 POY.

    Derek Holcombe went from the end of the bench to lead Illinios as high as a # 2 ranking.

    Bob Bender went from the end of the bench to a national title at Duke.

    To characterize guys at the end of RMK’s bench as being remotely like Bawa Miniru or Tijan Jobe is ridiculous. You know better.

    1. Not so fun fact…did you know that six former IU basketball players under RMK and Mike Davis have died before their 52nd birthday? A couple in their 30s.

      That has to be statistically out of the norm, I would think. Especially for elite athletes

    2. Said all I am going to say, do your homework and figure it out for yourself. Not saying most of his guys were not high character individuals, just some were talent lacking and some had other issues.

    3. Mark Haymore, while a very good player at UMass, was never the A10 POY. And Derek Holcombe wasn’t even a regular starter at UI during his time there, though he was a solid defender and shot blocker. He never averaged double figures in scoring on any of those teams, which were actually led by Mark Smith and Eddie Johnson. He also was forced to pay his own way since the B10 prohibited intro conference transfers (Cal Miller went from MSU to IU in football and paid his way, too.) Bobby B. did play on a national championship team at Duke, though, and Rich Valavicius had a good stretch at Auburn. For that matter, Ed Daniels did okay at Marquette, and Mike Fiomi had a few good moments at NC State. Ditto for Delray at Providence, and he wasn’t ready when he got to IU. John Flowers had some good moments at UNLV until his back gave out, too. But most guys who left did not fare well.

      1. I can’t locate POY reference but Haymore was first team Atlantic 10 and was drafted by 2 different NBA teams in consecutive seasons. His field goal percentage record still stands.

        You really undersold Holcombe. In 2012 Holcombe was named #24 on the list of the 50 best Illini players of all time. He was drafted by Portland. He still holds the school record for blocked shots.

        Add Tommy Baker, a childhood friend of mine, who had a great career at Eastern Kentucky and was drafted by the Mavs before his inner demons brought him down. He was a really great guy from a really poor family.

  24. Chet, I am not enamored with Tom Crean. Never was. But the intense disdain some people have for him is deranged. And to dismiss his many accomplishments while at IU is ridiculous. To state that his Marquette team’s run to the Final Four was all about one player (Wade) is laughably absurd. Tom Crean gets crushed for the recruits that didn’t work out, but he never gets credit for the many excellent players he brought to IU. I remember basketball geniuses on this site who ridiculed Crean for signing Victor Oladipo. Do you think they own up to their stupidity?

    Could Crean have been more consistent in his recruiting. Yes, of course. IU had too many down years that followed really good years. But Bob Knight signed a lot of duds while at IU, too! And as we continue to discover, Crean was competing with a lot of coaches who were nose-deep in corruption and cheating. Maybe Crean couldn’t sign some players because he wasn’t willing to cheat? Maybe refusing to cheat while trying to rebuild a program completely destroyed by his predecessor forces a coach to take bigger risks! How many coaches turned down IU’s offer to take over after Sampson?

    Since Tom Crean is such a terrible college basketball coach, his critics’ head must explode knowing that according to 247sports he signed the #1 ranked player in the country and his 2019 recruiting class is ranked 7th in the country. Where’s IU’s 2019 recruiting class ranked? I almost missed it, we’re down the list at 56. Just bad luck, I guess!

    1. It has shifted around a little bit Po, CTC’s ’19 class is down to #9 in 247, but at #6 in Rivals. Top recruit moving around at #2 or #3 nationally. For all that, his class is the 3rd best in the SEC on 247 and the 2nd best in conference on Rivals.

      I wasn’t enamored with his x’s and o’s and a change was needed, but considering what he was up against in the known recruiting environment, it’s a wonder he could recruit anything at all.

    2. We’ll see. I don’t by any means think he is incapable of producing a winner at Georgia. I’m not likely to bet on him, though.

      I freely admit that I supported him long after many had turned on him. The preponderance of evidence finally drove me away, too.

      Time will tell.

  25. think, I believe the ranking changed in early May when Crean signed Shavir Wheeler out of Texas. Here’s the most recent information I could find regarding 2019 recruiting class rankings: “Georgia’s recruiting class is currently ranked No. 6 by rivals.com, No. 8 by 247Sports.com and No. 9 by ESPN.com.” Regardless, Crean’s class of 2019, his first recruiting class at Georgia, is ranked a lot higher than IU’s class.

    Then again, Georgia Athletics’ ranking for overall success (Capital One Cup) over the last five years, in both men’s and women’s sports, is ranked 13th in the nation. IU is not ranked in the top 40. But what do those administrators at Georgia know about good coaches, right?

    1. I have to admit that, much like Penny Hardaway, when a guy not known for serious recruiting chops suddenly brings a great class into a school with zero basketball history (Memphis does have a history, just not a good one) it can’t help but raise an eyebrow.

      Something is certainly different with both Crean and the Georgia program.

      Stay tuned.

    2. Regarding the Capital One Cup. Indiana finished last year in 16th place. Georgia was 32nd.

      Looking at the men’s finishes back to the 2013-2014 seasons, Georgia’s 32nd place finish this past season appears to be their highest finish going back to 2013-2014. Not sure how that works out to #13.

  26. Praise to Crean for stabilizing a destabilized program which actually initiated under the buffoon named Brand. But Crean’s communication skills did not match the comprehension skills of the fan base owning a lofty BB IQ. With a limited ceiling for coaching x’s & o’s, a playing style riddled with TO’s, without any set offense or an aptitude for D and damn erratic recruiting wore thin fast. But he did run a clean ship. The lower ceiling of the SEC could be his kingdom. Damn glad he’s gone.

    1. HC,

      Agreed that Brand did get the job done of running RMK out of town, but remember, the effort began with his predecessor Ehrlich. While the culprits are very visible in the outcome, there were some people behind those two backing their play. They were not strong enough with Ehrlich, but gained enough strength to do so through Brand.

      I’ve debated whether CTC’s downfall was his x’s & o’s weaknesses or the style of basketball he wanted to implement. The CTC strategy appeared to be much more akin to the old Branch McCracken style of Hurryin Hoosier basketball than that of Bob Knight’s much more structured approach. Obviously, CTC’s inability to stay on the same page with the Indiana HS coaches and many others within Hoosier Nation certainly didn’t help.

      I think IUBB is much better off with CTC moving on than to have kept him. As for the lower SEC ceiling, not sure what you meant there. If speaking of basketball, that ceiling is on the way back up again. May take a couple years, but if the trend continues, SEC basketball could be a force to be reckoned with in the coming years. It will never get the attention of football, but the SEC, courtesy mainly of those folks south of the river, has it’s fair share of ncaa basketball banners.

      1. About this time last year we heard a lot of prognosticators claiming Vanderbilt was going to be the next big thing.

        Then, they had one player suffer an injury…ONE…and the team collapsed.

        Let’s save the praise until we see some actual results.

        Archie lost half the team at one point or another last season, including a lottery pick playing the entire season with a broken finger, and the same folks are calling him a failure. One big difference was Archie didn’t whine about it all season.

        Archie will win down the road. Vandy will continue to be Vandy.

        1. On a related note, ESPN ranks the Big Ten first in “top to bottom strength” of the conferences with the ACC second (but first overall with the B1G second).

          The SEC is fourth in both rankings behind the aforementioned plus the Big 12.

          1. 2019 Top 25 recruiting classes by conference:
            SEC- 6
            Big12-5
            ACC- 4
            PAC12-4
            B1G- 1

            I’d say the tides are starting to turn. Could it be a one year outlier? Perhaps, but it seems that the SEC has been on a steady rise as of late. As far as top 25 classes the last three years, it’s SEC 18 B1G 7

          2. FS,
            That’s the point I am referring to. The ACC football conference strength top to bottom is not nearly as strong as the SEC, but they produced the champion. The SEC basketball strength is growing and that is not a good thing for the B1G. No, they have not made too many deep runs in the tournament en masse, but you can’t discount the recent trend either. Will it continue? Hard to say, but it is alarming if you are a Pac 12 or Big 12 conference, and especially you are the B1G. Jim Delany may have been good for the B1G cash wise, but from a competitive standpoint nationally, it has been a disaster.

          3. Let’s save the praise until we see some actual results.

            Vanderbilt had a killer recruiting class last year. They were terrible.

            The PAC12 is terrible. The PAC12 is usually terrible.

            The SEC looks good on paper. They usually do. Then they have to play the games and it all goes to hell.

            Woulda…coulda… shoulda… The story of the SEC every single year.

          4. Except one little problem with that assessment Chet, the woulda, coulda, and shoulda has not occurred for the SEC 3 times since the last B1G team could hang a banner. Appears to me we have a bigger problem right here at home with the B1G than the SEC has. At least in the last 20 years.

      2. The simple fact he was run out of Bloomington and it was heralded by every IUBB fan I know and gobbled up by Georgia set the ceiling. He’ll be a hero there without having to accomplish anything acceptable in Indiana.

    1. H4H!!!!
      Where have you been, finally found the magic potion to make you reappear!!! We missed you Jester.

  27. He just could not resist another opportunity to bash Tom Crean. I imagine, as he lies on his death bed, the last words he speaks will be to criticize Tom Crean.

    1. Naw Po,
      H4H is just like the ole cat who just can’t resist jumping at the string when you pull it past enough. Knew if we kept mentioning CTC and the SEC, sooner or later, if our dear ole Jester was out there, the cat would have to pounce. Poor cat can’t help itself, part of it’s nature!

      Still, it just is not the same without you Harv. It would be like losing any other member of the HSN posting nation. Just not the same, missing a part of us. Everybody has to take a sabbatical once in a while, I certainly do. Just don’t be gone too long.

  28. HC, at least we agree that Brand was a Buffoon.

    Chet, the ranking I referenced for Georgia Athletics was the five average of how D-1 schools’ performed, not just the most recent year. And considering that Georgia was a couple of plays away from winning two National Championships in football, they could easily have finished in the top 5.

    CTC’s downfall was that he failed to beat Syracuse and advance past the Sweet 16 with a highly talented roster, the inconsistent results his teams had from year-to-year and the style of play he coached. Crean may not have been popular with Indiana HS coaches, but that did not get him fired. If a coach is winning, no one cares whether he’s signing talent from within the state or from across the country. And even though Bob Knight lost a lot of Indiana HS talent to other schools (often out of state), no one cared as long as he was winning. If an IU coach signs the top four in-state kids every recruiting class but fails to compete for Big Ten Championships and make deep runs into the tournament, he’s still going to get fired.

  29. I actually took a saccatical…Meow. Only returned because the “string” was in dire need of a Scoop while you made another mess in your Big 10 litter box.

  30. How soon we forget!
    1. Crean was the first IU coach (EVER) to defeat the #1 and #2 ranked teams in the country in the same season (11/12 team defeated Kentucky and OSU)
    2. Crean was the only IU coach whose team beat three top-five ranked teams in the same season (KY, OSU and MSU in 11/12).
    3. The 15-game improvement from 10/11 to 11/12 “was regarded as one of the most remarkable rebuilding projects in NCAA basketball history.”
    4. In 12/13, IU beat Purdue 97 – 60 in Mackey Arena, beat MSU in Breslin Center and then beat UM in Ann Arbor.
    5. Crean’s 12/13 team spent 10 weeks ranked #1 in the country, winning it’s first OUTRIGHT Big Ten Championship in 20 years. 20 YEARS! How long will it take IU to do that again?
    6. Crean’s 15/16 team won its second OUTRIGHT Big Ten Championship and Crean won his second Big Ten Coach of the year.
    7. 12 months later the geniuses running IU Athletics fired him and were on the hook to pay him $1 Million per year for four years.

    Yep, Crean was a terrible coach and a failure, and IU basketball is doing so much better now that he’s gone.

    1. Terrible is the word. Turnovers, erratic recruiting, double piss poor D and an offensive scheme unrecognizable to anyone with a BB IQ. Terrible is accurate. He’ll be loved in the peach as they know as much about BB as I do of growing peanuts.

      1. HC,
        I agree that CTC was x’s & o’s deficient in many ways and it was time for him to go. However, there has been a nagging concern regarding his ability to recruit, inconsistent though it was, he still managed to have some pretty good recruiting classes. Even Joe B. Hall, as equally x’s & o’s deficient as he was, still managed to hang a ncaa banner. Most believed at the time, ole Joe B. finally recruited enough talent to offset his clipboard shortcomings.

        Whether they know anything about basketball or not in Georgia, CTC has still landed in a talent rich environment. Let’s not forget, Denny Crum won 2 national championships at Louisville and made numerous trips to the final 4 participant drawing heavily out of the same region. My concern has always been that CTC would luck up and pull in enough talent to offset his deficiencies, and somehow backdoor his way into a banner before IU could hang another one. If the unimaginable should occur, what will Hoosier Nation say?

        Only thing I can think of to say is, like Earle Bruce did when IUFB pulled off the unimaginable, call it the darkest day in IU basketball.

        1. It was pUKe recruiting not necessarily Hall’s. We all remember pUKe recruiting of the time, at least I’m old enough to. Same goes for L’Ville and Crum. Everything in Kentucky is in the gray. You can think whatever you care to about Crean/Georgia/SEC & round ball. I just disagree. To me Crean has proved himself to be largely smoke and mirrors. He very well could be worshipped in the peach.

          1. The Hall coached UK squad that bumped IU from the tourney in 1975 was loaded with seniors who had been heralded at the time as their best recruiting class ever. They were all recruited by Adolf Rupp. I was in the gym when Rupp showed up in Jeffersonville to watch Mike Flynn.

          2. I remember the disappointment of ’75 team as well Chet. Arguably the best college team ever put on the court until the May injury. Same team with a healthy May nearly ran the KY team off the court in the regular season meeting. A lot of people felt the ’75 team was considerably better than the ’76 team which went unbeaten. Many publications I have seen have the ’76 team as either the best or a close 2nd to one of the Wooden UCLA teams, the year I can’t remember.

  31. Crean couldn’t find X’s and O’s in a game of ticktacktoe…

    All the aforementioned list of stellar achievements in conference play is due to the fortunate timing of landing the ‘Everything Hinges’ guy(some of that recruiting thank you needs to go to Dan Dakich and Austin Etherington). Dakich was tireless on the airways to bring Cody to Indiana. Etherington(true unsung legwork guy for Crean) did everything but walk on water to get Cody in candy stripes.

    Clarion’s assessments are accurate. Crean was a gibberish box and when he needed to employ true basketball IQ in stressful situations, it was obvious from Day 1 that he was found wanting.

    The thing maybe we should all be most grateful for as it pertains to the decade of ‘March Sadness’ for IU hoops during the happenstance/opportunist’s tenure is that Devin Davis did not perish on 17th Street. I hope our former coach still steps away from the machine of college basketball and the “sell job” to make oneself look the part to recruits and gives a true thank you to the ‘man above’ for the precious gifts easily taken for granted.

    1. H4H,
      I don’t disagree with your comments, but do have a question. Are the objections to CTC more over his basketball acumen or distaste for the style of basketball he sought to bring to IU? Reason for the question is some have thought of Branch McCracken’s style of Hurrying Hoosier basketball to be similar, but with much better results. I’m was too young to remember their play very well during their best years. Any thoughts by you or others?

  32. think- I never thought of anything Crean demonstrated as a “style” of basketball.
    The maddening turnovers…..the absence of having a clue on designing effective inbound plays(or defending against the oppositions)….the ineptness in timeouts to communicate instructions(anyone remember the final seconds of the Wichita State game and the failure to foul for a clock stoppage?).
    The solid b-ball IQs of Indiana kids not A-Hope projects(Cody, Yogi, Hulls, Davis, Etherington) …and timely transfers/grad transfers like Remy, Zeisloft (a.k.a. “Nickie Buckets”..nickname courtesy: Geoff), Beilfeldt (courtesy: Beilein) brought most of the “style” and previously learned knowledge of the game to counter Crean’s anti-style absent of any clue.

    And let’s not forget the numerous kids under Crean’s watch who didn’t live up to off-the-court standards so labeled as only a fault of a previous name given such despise and “witch hunt” labels. The hypocrisy was nearly as exhausting as the horrific coaching of the game. Any other questions?

  33. And in our glory years/heyday whether “Hurrying” or “Motion,” there were things known as defense and communication. Most of us here are old enough to remember great teams playing great defense and help defense…and communicating. We also remember “rocks” and “leaders” who made others accountable on the floor. All that leadership started via being accountable and the name on the jersey and the respect for the game above individual accolades and egocentric pursuits.

    I’m all good with dreams to play at the next level…but the jersey doesn’t seem to embody much of the Hoosier spirit that brought banners. Talent operates in a vacuum without that spirit, camaraderie and collective belief in five playing a game better than their individual components. That’s the “style” I miss…Call me Hoosier old-fashioned. Some guys thought they were bringing back that spirit by merely putting on a pair of short shorts with 5 stars on the waistband.

  34. Think ; Branch had better players. in my memory he had Jimmy Rayl, Van Arsdale Twins, Walt Bellamy; Im thinking Tom Bolyard. For me the objections to CTC is /was his BB Acumen. he lost games where he couldn’t draw up an out-of-bounds play (s). Crean’s Defense waved at defenders more than Joselito’s red cape was waved at Bulls.

    1. Crean’s Defense waved at defenders more than Joselito’s red cape was waved at Bulls.

      Fantastically funny line!

      Rumor has it that Crean’s pacing at Georgia has somehow gone beyond what was demonstrated at McCracken. He has switched back to a very comfortable pair of shoes made by “Born.” Being ‘Born Again’ has put a new bounce in his step.

  35. I find some of the recent comments most amusing. Basically, Crean’s critics say “forget his record and forget the success he has achieved, Crean’s a terrible coach because we don’t agree with his coaching style.” As I’ve suggested for years, style matters more to these folks than results. In other words, to some Hoosier fans, it does not matter if or how much you win, as long as you know your x’s and o’s, play solid defense and have a recognizable offensive scheme. It’s the same people who pray for the reincarnation of Marvin Wood. And what’s funny is that those folks in. Milan were very upset when Wood was hired to replace Herman Grinstead. You see Wood’s style of basketball was the polar opposite of Grinstead’s style. They changed their minds pretty quickly after Milan won the State Championship. Unfortunately for Wood’s devotees, the NCAA installed the shot clock in 1986 and shortened it in 1994, placing greater emphasis on athleticism compared to x’s and o’s and offensive schemes.

    I admit that I am not a basketball purist. And although heavily influenced by decades of watching Bob Knight coached IU teams, I don’t really care if IU wins because our coach recruits a greater number of superior talent or because he’s a master of x’s and o’s. I don’t care if he teaches average talent to win through superior fundamentals or if he wins by having a roster filled with superior athletes that just blow the opposition away. I remember IU teams that did it one way, but I also remember Magic Johnson’s MSU team that did it the opposite way. And even though Bob Knight’s IU team that team was better coached, it was helpless to beat MSU team that season.

    Knowing that Crean’s first recruiting class is the 6th or 7th highest ranked class in the country and ranked much higher than IU’s class must terrify the Crean-haters. Don’t those talented young men understand how the game is supposed to be played? And the thought of Crean hanging a banner at Georgia gives them nightmares. It would tilt the earth on its access and place them in a permanent state of vertigo.

  36. Here’s a map with “style”…Most of the stylin’ map reflects the Crean years and where Indiana was poised during the biggest stages of the game contrasted against the rest of the Midwest(Conference Midwest Elite).

    For God’s sake….Loyola played in a Final Four. In ten years of Crean (and the subsequent lack of momentum inherited by Archie) , the Hoosiers weren’t even an afterthought in late March. The man walked away with 30 million dollars while having that “styling” map of March greatness…and it’s time to cry in his beer of injustice?

  37. Crean never coached the game as a basketball “purist.” He actually modernized the game as a basketball puritan. You get to play a wide open game of hoops while shackled above a burning pile of sticks.

    1. H4H,
      You still leave me wondering if we are not all looking at CTC through the prism of RMK. Unfortunately, I’m not sure if we have anyone old enough to remember McCracken’s style of game or if there is enough good film to get a sense of the way IU played then. What I do know from historians is that the Hurrying Hoosier style of play was to look for a fast-break at every possible opportunity. Was it akin to the run and shoot style we see in many programs and the nba today? I don’t know.

  38. To all of Scoop: You are all good guys….You too, Podunker. Most of you likely find this place as a way to talk of your Hoosier memories, pass the hours and reward yourselves for lives fulfilled and dreams pursued. I look up to all of you.
    I miss Seahawk Tom…and Tsao …and Punjab…and Double Down…and Geoff…and JPat….and Aruss…and the many whose faces and handshakes I’ll never know. All things change while, at the same time, never changing. Please try to forgive me for hijacking so many threads and losing any sense of introspection. Never had much admiration and sometimes a little here became a drug I hit too hard. Sorry for that..

    Health and happiness to all,

    Harvard

  39. Yes McCracken coached the HH but what they did to earn that label was take opportunities and turn them into positive results. They still played sound fundamental ball. There was a structure to the offense attacking that opponents defense. McCracken also coached D as strenuously as he did offense. I’m still amazed at the overall poor coaching Crean did in comparison.

    1. Tough defense is the key to an effective fast break offense.

      That, along with hookers and payoffs, was the key to Rick Pitino’s success.

  40. Published reports are reporting that Coach Knight has purchased a home in Bloomington and is moving back. Could this be Archie’s new assistant or advisor?

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