53 comments

  1. I didn’t have the time to listen to the audio, but I suspect judging by the article headline Jon and gang are on the same path as BD & I suspect. When Jon’s headline says “Risks/Rewards” it tells you where the thought process is at. Which QB has the higher ceiling versus the risk. IUFB has gone down the path of low ceiling, low risk, and low reward the last two years with minimal success. The question now, “Is TA willing to roll the dice and go for higher reward which may carry with it higher risk?” How much higher is the reward potential and can you minimize the risk?

    If my guess is correct, TA wants to win and win now, which means IUFB is going to roll the dice looking for what they believe will be a much higher reward despite the risk.

  2. Your high risk high reward vs low risk low reward is totally flawed. Ramsey is high risk and low reward because defenses can cheat their defense against IU offense meaning high risk of non productive offense = low reward of lack of touchdowns or points.
    Five win seasons do not create your described scenarios. Rather, it creates a situation that given you have what you think is an able quarterback = what do you have to lose by giving the able quarterback a chance or opportunity.

    1. t,
      It depends on what your perspective is. If you looking at it from a pure game management standpoint then PR is low reward, low risk. If you are looking at it from a win now or injury to receivers perspective, then PR is certainly high risk and low reward.

  3. t and thinkaboutit, I agree with your post, IU needs to take a chance on greater success. Stevie Scott showed last year that given a chance an “unknown” can excel. Defenses tell you how good a QB really is and the past two years they have crowded the LOS with Ramsey at QB. PSU backed their defense off when Penix came in the game. I hope IU chooses to have a chance at more success this year.

  4. Leaning heavy this way ( especially in practice )

    1, Penix
    2. Ramsey
    3. Tuttle

    Always said Tuttle was 3rd … its hard for a 3rd to see the field but , its IU and I believe he will get a chance to to see if he can produce…

    1. Fan,
      I’m beginning to think so, but don’t be surprised in JT moves up one slot before the end of the year.

  5. Think : IU needs a shot in the arm at QB… only thing is JT was 3rd at Utah and now again 3rd at IU .. ( looking like 3rd ) Has had many opportunities to produce in practices and scrimmages ..( both at Utah and IU ) just cant find he groove…. Utah sports writer might have had it right .. has all the gifts but the intangibles …

    As we all know game time rolls so much different**** ( play is so much faster , mind has to react so much quicker and etc ) its just about go time .. and we will all know how this shakes out …

    1. Fan,
      Just speculating on JT, but I think the only reason he is 3rd in the pecking order is lack of familiarity with the program which will not be an issue by end of season. At this point to try and draw correlations between IU and Utah is apples and oranges. JT was recruited to play one style of football which changed radically after arrival at Utah. Wisely, he realized he had no future there and got out. I believe he chose IU believing his skills would be compatible at some point. I don’t see JT failing at IU because I think he believes he has a future at IU when his time comes. Only time will prove this out.

      1. only correlation i drew was … 3rd at utah and ( apparently 3rd at iu )

        i want to see the kid play at the college level … then we can all assess his skills…

        1. No disagreement there Fan,
          Hopefully at some point time we will get to see JT perform in a system which evidently both he and IUFB believe to be compatible. I believe it was Chet who mentioned the Troy Aikman example of not a good fit at Oklahoma, but a great fit at UCLA. For the player’s sake you always hope this to be the case. If there is one major advantage to the new transfer rules it is that kids don’t get trapped in a system, especially if it changes after they sign. The other advantage is hopefully there will be fewer Tommy Stevens’ out there being dazzled by the bright lights of the big programs only to find they are just another fish trapped in a very big pond.

  6. I may have been wrong on JT. Maybe, at college level lack of mobility and athleticism may be an issue. Example. Chris Dittoe. Though he spent a couple years with the Lions. Maybe, JT role in college at a big ten program would be a solid backup.

  7. Our kick a.. ( at a mid major ) producing big time and still a shot at the pros..
    No kid wants to hold a clip board… especially if he can shine at a mid…

    time will tell how this all shakes out….

  8. I don’t understand how people can be against Tuttle when no one has seen him play in an IU uniform. He left Utah because Utah changed offensive coordinator and changed their offense. The guys ahead of him were dual-threat guys. Reporters have said that he runs better than expected and may have the best arm if you consider both strength and accuracy. Maybe he’ll be great, maybe he won’t. But it’s way too early to know.

  9. 123- Agree. Practice can never mimic game situation. And, unless Penix completely transformed his body(not easy to do while coming off a serious knee injury) I’m very doubtful if he can hold up for a season.

    Also, I was talking about risk/reward analysis months ago….Listening above, you’d think BD and thinkaboutit were initiating these ideas.
    IU coaches(other than Wilson) have been notoriously risk-averse because a bowl game is the only thing that matters. They don’t want to stumble early(thus, going with the slow and steady experienced hand) …Cupcakes and best odds at the qb to put a few wins in the books early…sadly resting on backup plans and more skilled backup quarterbacks(who should be getting the kinks out early) when the schedule gets brutal. Hope for a bucket game win. Rinse. Repeat.

    Lastly, nobody has the patience for podcasts…Please stick to writing pieces and show your true craft. Podcasts are not ‘intangibles’ at journalism. They’re lazy and trendy forms for the unskilled to survive.

  10. Agree, and often a player like JT time will come. Arm strength passing accuracy and some mobility by quarterback can keep defenses more honest enhancing help ground game.
    I am not against Tuttle.
    As far as a player playing mid major vs big ten level. There are arguments both ways (timing, sacrifice of waiting, developing etc). It becomes a personal decision.

  11. Come on Penix lead IU to it’s breakthrough season! We will have 2 good options should any injury occur!

  12. I believe its the caliber of the player … is he / she a Power 5 or Mid.. some players that are not P5 and dont transfer … hold that clip board or get very minimal minutes ..( whole career ) but could just kicked butt at the mid level …

  13. Unless I’m reading the tea leaves incorrectly or Allen and DeBoer are purposely trying to deceive who the starter will be it appears that Penix will in all likelihood see the majority of playing time against BSU. I don’t see advantage in not naming a starter because IU is implementing a new offense. BSU will have to rely on old game tape from DeBoer’s days at Eastern Michigan and Fresno to get some sense of what to expect, but if neither of those teams had a mobile QB as potentially Penix is they won’t have much to go on.

    Unless there is a total failure on Penix’s part to move the offense I don’t see a need to play either Ramsey or Tuttle. One would think that having a new QB get as many reps as possible would be the way to go, especially since Ramsey is a veteran. Yes I understand that IU has implemented a new offense, which is all the more reason for the starter to receive extended minutes to better familiarize himself with the offense and his receivers in actual game conditions.

    If it turns into a blowout then I could see having Ramsey come in to finish off the game.

    1. I disagree! Put the game away, 40-20 in the 3rd quarter, then get both Jack and Peyton in the game. IU needs to make a statement win over Ball State!

      1. I hope the score is more in line with 40-0 with our defense making a statement in this game. The defense needs to show they are back to being formidable and tough on opposing offenses.

        I want to see a vastly improved Hoosier team in all three phases looking ready to rumble through the B1G this year.

        1. Yes IU with a dominating win to me wouldn’t be just a potent, multiple, flowing offense scoring TD’s but a touchdown by the D and 1 by the ST’s gives proof Allen and staff have focused effectively.

      2. I’m hoping that the defense gives up less than 20 points to BSU. My concern is that if the DL cannot control the line of scrimmage against BSU, I question how effective they will do against OSU in week three, or other stiffer competition. Allen’s reputation is that of fielding a strong defense. It would be nice to see a strong defensive performance by totally dominating BSU’s offense.

  14. SOSD, I am with you for getting Penix as much experience in the next two games as possible heading into OSU. I am sure there will be a rotation some time in the games but Penix needs as much time as he can get.

  15. Jeff Sagarin’s ratings have to start a season with his best estimate of team strength.
    Over the years, he’s shown amazing abilities in that area.
    He says IU should beat Ball State by 20, and that Ball State is the lowest rated team in their Mac division.
    I would think all three quarterbacks might see action if we start “puttin’ a whuppin’ on ’em.”

  16. Why is Ramsey still in the conversation?

    Penix can do everything Ramsey can do, but Ramsey can’t do everything Penix can do, so I wonder why the hesitation on TA’s part? If you want low-risk five to seven yard dink and dunk passes, Penix can also throw those passes all day long. But if you want a 25-yard frozen rope thrown into a shoebox, you need Penix (or Tuttle). Now, to be sure, they’re not going to encourage Penix to run the ball and expose his knee to hits for a while, but if/when Penix is 100%, he should be able to run just as well as Ramsey, if not better. So why is Ramsey still in the discussion?

    As for the future, if Penix is the clear #1, we should assume Ramsey will be a graduate transfer next year? I mean, from his perspective, why would Ramsey want to spend his last year of eligibility holding a clip board when he could be a starter at another (mid-major) team?

    As for Tuttle, I think TA had better start thinking about his ability to evaluate and recruit transferring quarterbacks in the future. Given last year’s debacle with the guy from Arizona, if Tuttle, given his rating coming out of HS, is not going to win the starting job, TA is going to find it very difficult to recruit other transferring quarterbacks in the future. A kid transfers because he wants to play. If Tuttle wanted to be the back-up to the back-up, he could have avoided the hassle and disruption of transferring from Utah in the first place. Of course there are no guarantees, but come on, you don’t recruit a transferring quarterback unless you’re pretty sure he’s going to be the starter. It’s almost as if TA values his personal familiarity with a kid over the kid’s skills and upside potential! Either that, or as a defensive-minded coach, TA is very conservative (i.e., risk-averse) and places great importance on quarterbacks he believes will minimize turnovers (i.e., a game manager).

    IMO, TA’s job security depends on the performance of IU’s #1 quarterback. A QB with average skills is not going to lead IU to a winning season, either this year or next year. So again, why is Ramsey still in the conversation?

  17. People keep saying Ramsey is low risk. That is a very incorrect assessment by his play (limited ability noted bunch of times). by default. The reason PR is high risk is he helps opposing teams defenses and also really offenses to much more than he helps his own team. The reasons have already been said to many times.

  18. The problem with Ramsey as a game manager is he wasn’t a very good one. 19 touchdowns to 13 turnovers just ain’t good. But Ramsey probably started camp with the 1’s, probably threw for the highest % and probably looked the besting doing it. But everyone knows his talents have a high floor and a low ceiling. So now, how does TA name Penix #1 if Ramsey looked the best in practice? And how does TA tell Ramsey he’s being demoted based not on his performance but for something called potential? That said, Penix has to be the starter for all the reasons everyone has mentioned before.

  19. Reese Taylor would be better to start at qb than PR if he would have been prepped for it. If that would not have worked then PR could have his job back. Though that is not in the plans. It is time for change at IU qb. The other is just to painful to watch. On a positive note PR (to me) would be really good as a backup QB after Tuttle or Penix when and if Tuttle can progress and develop.

  20. Speaking of JT. Utah ranked 14… and Urban Meyer predicts Utah to win pac 12. So, besides big and good OL and DL Utah must have pretty good qb play.

  21. Several posters at another site that attend practices have stated Penix has now been taking first team reps every practice. I don’t understand coach Allen’s reluctance to come out with it but he did say we would know based on who got the reps.

    This season is beginning to shape up like it may be a special season for IUFB. The big powers all have major changes that people think won’t create a step back for those teams but they could step back just a bit this year. If IU is improved as much as it looks like with our new OC, Penix at QB, increased size and strength of OL to go along with our very good receivers at TE and WR; it might be enough of a change to knock off a team or two rather than just play them close. Especially if our defense and STs improve this year.

    The game this week against Ball State will give us a good idea how good this IU team can be.

  22. You’re right, HC. Brandon Dawkins had problems (admitted mental health issues), but that’s not the point. Kids around the country don’t know that or aren’t going to remember that detail, but opposing coaches competing against IU to recruit a quality transfer QB are certainly going to point out that the last two transfer QBs IU recruited didn’t get the starting job. I can just hear opposing coaches asking the kid, “do you want to be the starter, or are you going to be satisfied being a back-up? Because IU has recruited two transferring QBs like you who did not become starters. Did you ever hear about Brandon Dawkins and Jack Tuttle? Two talented QBs who transferred to IU and never played?” Instilling just a little doubt in the mind of a 19-year old can make a big difference.

    1. Hoosier football fans would love nothing more than a trip to the ‘Gnat’s Butt Pimple Bowl’…..

      My gnat buddy was going on a blind date…He was nervous as hell. I told him him the key was to just act gnaturally.

  23. As for Saturday’s score, it needs to be a blow-out, and TA should try to score on every possession until the game is completely out of hand. If IU does not win in a blow-out, that will be a sign that this team is not ready to produce a winning season. I want a 40 point differential in the score, with BSU’s only scores coming late in the game.

    IU needs to learn how to be a winner, and winning a close game against a weak MAC team isn’t going to impress anyone.

  24. Po, I would say I don’t want IU recruiting any transfers as the roster gets filled and balanced. On the other hand OSU had to get a transfer QB but may have hurt themselves in the long run as back up QBs aren’t very good if they need them this year. To me, recruiting -I don’t think Tuttle was recruited – transfers sends the wrong message to your team even if it is an up grade. How can you tell your players to keep working hard and wait for their time if they see transfers coming in.

    Po, I agree about the game as IU needs to dominate BSU. If they don’t I will have to reevaluate what I think the team can do this year. The OC games need to teach the team how to out play opponents and never let up in a game. We also need to see going to #2s doesn’t create a drop off that matters. The depth should be at the point #2s can step in and the team still functions as well as with the #1s.

    1. Once Tuttle announced he was leaving Utah, IU definitely recruited him (really re-recruited him, since they recruited him in high school).

  25. I think Ball State and Eastern Illinois will tell limited information about IU. That is even if IU is very successful. It will tell if IU runs to the correct side of field and if IU is organized to break the huddle and run an effective play. I expect IU to play somewhat close to the vest against Ball State and Eastern Illinois. IU will run some pass plays but won’t show a lot. OSU and thereafter IU will open things up more throughout season. Thru the end of September will tell how good team may be.

  26. t, I agree the two games will give limited insight in IU team this year but I hope the talent difference is evident even with a limited offensive approach. On the other hand, coach DeBoer may want to come out and see how the team handles the offense without limiting it. There is a risk in limiting the offense too much as you don’t get game experience doing the things needed to beat the better teams. These two games are intriguing due to our new OC and DC. Seeing their approach to games will show the approach they want to take.

    I know different coaches take different approaches but when people asked me about our team showing too much; I told them I would give my opponent our playbook if the wanted it because we still had to execute what we were doing. I told them also, the really good teams broke our film down enough; they could write our playbook just like I could when breaking down films of our opponents.

  27. At Lucas Oil Stadium I don’t expect Ball State to just lay down. RUOFF Football Classic…NO and IU should object for false advertising…RUOFF football game….Accurate and that is ok and a more accurate honest game title.

  28. No doubt about it, IU recruited Tuttle hard, both before he graduated HS and when he decided to leave Utah.

    IU must blow out BSU. It simply must. A close game would be a disaster for TA’s program.

    1. Not sure where the IU didn’t recruit Tuttle story came from, but it’s the edge of the season, when fans and expectations get a little dreamy. Always a fun time when everyone is unbeaten.

  29. H4H recognizes it is IU football in BS 27 IU 21. What a RUOFF CLASSIC FOR BS that would be. Not out of the realm of possibilities by a long shot. I think it will take the majority of game to get there IU 37 BS 10. There are to many stars vs low and no stars. Is a legitimate IU qb going to play in season opener. Or is everyone just going to continue to write and read long articles over “pop a top again” cans of beer. IU just has time for one more round and round and round and round until finally falling off the bar stool in a drunken stupor.

  30. Last season showed where the two program stood and IU controlled the game. I don’t expect IU to open this season flat. BSU lost their QB and RB to transfer and that offense won’t be better than last year. Their defense had a hard time dealing with IU’s offense and if this year is to be better we expect our offense to be better. Anything short of dominating the game will be disappointing.

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