Hoosiers aim to ‘flush’ but not forget OSU loss

Monday was the day Indiana began to move on from a 41-point loss to No. 6 Ohio State.

But not entirely.

A subpar run game, a boatload of missed tackles, a blocked punt — all of those things had to be “flushed,” as IU coach Tom Allen said following the Hoosiers’ loss Saturday. They can’t allow the pains of failure to compound and lead to another versus UConn.

But in the aftermath of something historically bad — the widest margin of victory the Buckeyes have ever achieved in Bloomington — Allen was hoping something would linger.

Kind of like the anger he felt Saturday night, going over the game film.

“I was pretty ticked off as I came in Sunday,” Allen said. “The edge that that creates in you, to me, I don’t want that to ever go away. Because those things, they bother you, when you invest so much and you work so hard and you have an expectation.”

IU’s players have been wrestling with the meeting of their expectations to reality, and it’s been humbling.

Senior left tackle Coy Cronk described the locker room as “bleak” after the loss.

“No music, no talking, get in and out,” Cronk said. “Just kind of go home and that’s about it.”

Junior corner Raheem Layne, on the other hand, actively searched out his younger teammates, trying to offer support.

“Everybody can’t hang their heads,” Layne said. “You gotta make sure the young guys know, this is not what we expect. What we are expecting, we need to go out there and make sure we don’t do that no more.”

This week, the leadership in the Hoosiers’ locker room will be tested. Cronk and his offensive line mates have to bounce back from a sound beating in the trenches. Layne and his fellow tacklers can’t let ballcarriers run free.

Senior defensive end Allen Stallings thought back critically on the effort level at practice leading into Ohio State.

“Focus, that’s the main thing that I feel like we lacked last week,” Stallings said. “You could see it during different periods of practice, we weren’t as locked in as we should have been, and it carried into Saturday.”

Coming out of a 51-10 blowout, Allen didn’t name players of the week. But he did recognize four scout-teamers, Christian Harris (offense), Beau Robbins (defense), and Joseph Daniels and Justin Berry (special teams).

It’s on the game field where IU’s coaches didn’t see enough fight.

“When you walk out there on that field, you say ‘Enough is enough’ and I’m going to do my job, alright, and focus on my play, so that I can go execute at a high level,” IU defensive coordinator Kane Wommack said, “and that’s not what we did enough in that game.”

Wommack, one of Allen’s closest pupils, spoke with an intensity Monday. He repeated those words, “enough is enough.”

“At some point, every great program has eventually said ‘enough is enough,’ we are going to get it changed and we are going to be the reason why,” Wommack said. “Every person that’s involved with Indiana football has to decide and has to make that decision, that we are going to say ‘enough is enough’ and let’s go compete.”

While the Hoosiers didn’t get the program-changing win they craved versus the Buckeyes, Wommack didn’t want this low moment to be wasted, either.

In a meeting with his players that morning, Wommack noted the date and time.

“It’s Sept. 16, it’s about 8:30 in the morning, let this be a memory that when you walk in that locker room for your bowl game … let this be a memory of when you said, you decided, this is a program-changing opportunity,” Wommack said. “That’s how we have to see this… It was disappointing, for sure, but we have to see it as an opportunity to get better.”

Penix timetable

It remains unclear when redshirt freshman quarterback Michael Penix Jr. will return behind center for IU after sitting out the Ohio State game with an undisclosed injury.

But if Penix were to be ready this weekend, Allen made it clear that he wouldn’t be inclined to hold his young signal caller out until next weekend’s Big Ten contest with Michigan State.

“We just tell our guys, hey, you got to do everything you can, work as hard as you can to be back as soon as you can,” Allen said. “But he is a young quarterback and so getting him reps is very important. So to me, it’s a matter of if he can, if he is able to go, then he needs to go. That’s how I look at it.”

Allen classified Penix as “day-to-day.” He was a game-time decision last weekend.

Redshirt junior Peyton Ramsey started against Ohio State and would play again if Penix were unavailable. In reviewing Ramsey’s performance, offensive coordinator Kalen DeBoer said he “competed his tail off,” but the Hoosiers’ lack of success running the ball on early downs made things harder on him.

IU ran for 1.4 yards per carry and was 3-of-17 converting third downs. Ramsey completed 19-of-33 passes for 162 yards and an interception, which was returned for a score.

“We just got him in so many long situations,” DeBoer said. “There are plays he’d love to have back, throws he’d love to have back. That’s football.”

68 comments

  1. Every running play in the first quarter was a wasted play. DeBoer should have been able to recognize that attempting to run against OSU was going to be futile. Instead, his game plan should have been to have the pass open up the running game. In the end, it would not have made a difference in the outcome, but we might have been more competitive.

    We have a lot of young players and two Coordinators that have never had jobs at this level of competition. I hope a lot of people learned a lot from Saturday’s butt whipping.

  2. Nope. Nothing to learn. This has been going on (with few exceptions) for a 100 years = a century. T.A., players since they were kids including family and relatives, rest of coaching staff, and fans; past, present, and (future will know) plus you and me know. It is what it is. It is one of those things that when it changes the more it stays the same.

  3. Even if IU tried passing game it would have been as bad as running game which it was when IU and PR run passing plays. If IU started with passing games in quarter one it would have = STRIPPERS, interceptions, sacks, incompletions, interceptions returned for tds, a gimpy or possible qb injury, etc. It would have been equally embarrassing for IU.

  4. Wisconsin, Penn State, and Michigan are possible losses meaning one loss for OSU. Understanding that OSU has Michigan number recently, historically the best team often comes out of that game with a loss.
    IU made OSU look great. Not sure OSU is as invincible as IU made OSU look.

    1. If passing early includes ‘STRIPPERS’….I’m not passing on watching.

      Sad, isn’t it, t? We can’t even use our beatdowns against OSU as any sort of barometer to guess/predict how other teams will fare against them. We are just soooooo bad historically, it really measures nothing. OSU crushes a small ant…OSU crushes a double-sized ant….OSU crushes Hoosiers’ biggest ant in twenty years. OSU crushes a John Cougar Mellencamp ant farm. We’re THE football ant of the BigTen. They are THE Ohio State Buckeyes.
      We produce ant-size seasons….Once in a while we crawl up onto the counter and find our way into a cereal bowl. Why would any coach waste good film session time preparing for the Buckeyes by examining what OSU did to an ant?

      Clemson still likely beats the Buckeyes by five touchdowns. The ant says it ain’t so….but all the ant knows is the bottom of the shoe or a cereal bowl.

  5. Any one time success of first quarter passing game would have been if a ref decided to throw a flag for pass interference against OSU. (of course turning the ball over in next series of downs with punt, blocked punt, interception, or fumble). After pass interference penalty against the Buckeyes I could see coach T.A. now singing Splish Splash…I’m taking a bath and Spinning Around…Look At The Hoosiers Go. That would be after his unmotivational high volume yelling pre game pep talk.

    1. t- you are how old? Coach Allen is talking to 18-23 year olds, to give them an emotional charge! Stay in your lane!

      1. BP,
        Every so often t lapses into, as Chet would say, “West Laffy” mode, but t is not alone, have several others one wonders about.

        1. Those I “wonder” about are those who do not hold this administration or the coach accountable for their goals/milestones/indicators of improvement.
          Now entering the third year of Allen and terms like “breakthrough” promoted long ago by the AD and head coach are turning out to be just as weakly thrown in front of the fans as anything coming off Ramsey’s arm.

          Those who couldn’t smell the coffee while witnessing the ineptitude of Crean are as “West Laffy” as it gets. They protected his pious blow and his ideologies more than the Indiana name and sense of pride in teaching the game. I “wonder” if the same is now being done for Allen.

          All ‘t’ asks is the same any legit fan should ask after the last decade of hoops and the many decades of follies in football. He’s basically saying that slogans, proclamations, and locker room rants have grown hollow. It’s time to PUT UP…or SHUDDUP.

          Penix has yet to really do anything. That’s not his fault …but it also doesn’t make him Patrick Mahomes.

          1. Ah H4H!
            There is one thing I can count on, you will never go into West Laffy mode, your Jester mode will always get in the way!!

            I seriously question whether or not IUFB in particular and IUBB in general, actually have any “legit” fans. “Legit” fans do not tolerate the spectacle that is IU athletics, being foisted upon them. Yet we see for the last 25 years in basketball, and the last 130 years in football, exactly that being done. Where are the instate Indiana “legit fans,” who are able to vote, demanding the Governor appoint 6 BOT members who will hold the IU admin accountable? Where are the “legit” fans in the IU alumni, who will make sure they elect 3 BOT members who will do the same? If “legit” fans will do neither, are they really “legit” fans?

            The only question I would ask to you specifically, is how do you turn around the worst football program in D1 history and remember, no other school is even close to this bad? Where is the pattern for how to do it? No current coach in the country has any experience in turning around one this bad. Sure, spend 15 million a year on the best staff money can buy, is that a guarantee of success? How many years can you stand at that level of money before a winner is required? Obviously for some, 2 years is the maximum at the level TA & staff are being paid. So if we pay the 15 mil a year, what do they get, 6 games to get the job done?

            Don’t forget part of the equation is “legit” fan participation, will we get that too? Past performance certainly does not indicate such. Also, most of this is just FB, didn’t even get started on BB.

          2. I don’t have the answers, thinkaboutit.

            I only know the president of IU seems to not have any responsibility for the health/vitality of the sports programs.
            He had nothing to do with hiring the current AD…or the last basketball coach now at Georgia who, basically, hired our AD. Committee room bogus hiring practices created, ultimately, no singular person having to be accountable. Joey Glass(Fred’s son) liked Crean back at Marquette(wrote a beautiful letter of endorsement for him aimed at Marquette administrators claiming Crean was going to be poached by a top program like Indiana)…As a crystal Joey ball would have it, Crean got hired by committee room before even having our new AD. Crean gets appointed to be part of the second committee …and, shocker, hires Joey’s dad, Fred, for his AD.

            Summary: Joey loves Crean (sounds a lot like Joanie Loves Chachi) ….Crean loves him some Joey’s dad for his AD. Dad doesn’t want to fire his son’s ultimate choice …but, eventually (as in 10 years) has no other recourse. Fred (Crean’s choice) has since called all the shots.
            I really don’t know how the “board” of anything or the fans carry the blame for what went on in those committee rooms. We can go back 50 years…but why? Our basketball program was damn strong up until the mid ’90s.

            I go back to those committee rooms, what was happening with those “insiders” who could manipulate the process during the Sampson witch hunt(along with Greenspan witch hunt), dealt us the cronyism/nepotism that was taking place behind those committee room doors, ultimately leaving an IU president able to stay conveniently aloof and out of touch….and without any accountability.

            I wanted a fresh start when Crean was axed because I knew the history of Joey, Fred and Crean. Fresh start means new AD…and maybe even a new president because I don’t believe he’s shown any leadership to get the programs(as in our two major sports programs) right. How long are we going to give this AD hired by Tom Crean? Answer me that one, Hoosier jesters.

          3. Also…you’re sort of dodging. Sure, a qb with a great arm makes a difference. I’m also pretty sure that many a great arm ball thrower doesn’t necessarily translate to stardom qb, successful college career..or top NFL career.

            Penix can throw a long ball. He’s also a toothpick…who has already had two setback injuries costing us his availability against major Big Ten East opponents. There’s also no sample set allowing anyone to know he’s the next Patrick Mahomes anymore than the next Sherlock Holmes. Notwithstanding all the other dozens of question marks regarding the team(depth, size comparisons to top BigTen teams, athleticism, star ranking deficiencies, defensive question marks, running ability, new coordinators coaching ability, head coaching ability), you’re putting the cart before the horse with a qb you’ve already made a superstar based on 10 plays against Penn State and two cupcakes. There’s nothing jesting there, my friend. You’ve made Penix into Mahomes. It’s what immature IU fans tend to do….They tend to inflate giant balloons of hype that pop before a party even begins. Do you remember the name “Gunner?” Let’s hope Penix gets to prove he can turn around a perennial loser into the Michigan Wolverines. It’s really more pressure than anyone needs….and it’s certainly unfair to put the root of all evils on Ramsey’s weak arm. It’s insulting to say he’s a fine kid(guilty as charged)….and acting like the world will be right when he’s benched.
            Cart before horse. Not fair to Penix or Ramsey.

          4. Aww H4H,
            You know I don’t think MP is anything other than what appears to be a talented prospect. No, I can’t say he is the next Mahomes or any one else. What I want, is a fair sampling of his ability on the field so we can see what is really there. I don’t think I am being unfair to PR when I criticize his weak arm. Yes, he is a great kid who will make a great coach some day, but he is not a B1G caliber QB. A weak armed QB will get his receivers tore all to pieces with short low velocity passes, which set up your receiver to take major injury causing hits.

          5. Condescending when you put that “Aww” before my name….or maybe you’re just jesting.

            Anyway, fair enough. Wiffle ball arm Ramsey….The only thing not completely fair is thinking that change in itself will make us a team that still has a shot against the Top 3 of the East.
            We’ve had big arms…and it’s never made much difference. The deficiencies are glaring at all positions. Thus, it’s sort of simplistic to label one as the sole problem.
            I thought I heard an announcer call Tuttle a bit undersized during his brief appearance in the OSU game….Did anyone else catch that?

            Three QB Summation: Weak arm. Questionable resiliency. Undersized(?) And this was where we were supposed to make “breakthrough” a reality? All talk….once again.

          6. Reasonable assessment H4H,
            No disagreements from me, but losing to all three of the division powers is not the end of the world in the pursuit of FB respectability. At this stage of the game, it is the other 9 games on you schedule. Win all 9 and that is very respectable. Win 7 or 8 and it is a good move forward. I think this is a much better measurement of progress than how well IUFB stacks up against the B1G East powers. Very few teams in the B1G do well against those 3 teams.

            You know there are certain expressions you learn in the south that can be very effective depending on how you use them. “Aww” is one of those which can span the spectrum from being very endearing to slicing you up into tiny pieces. Only the best for you Jester! Only the best.

          7. I’m coming at this from a position of “Show me the Wins!” Until they show me, I’m not buying the land in Florida for sale.

            Wish I could be as positive about this as you, but I’m not seeing many conference wins. And as far as the ‘Big 3’ in the BigTen East, I’d like to see us play on a nationally televised game like we belong. Losing is one thing….
            Getting destroyed or just fully manhandled is another. I’m not sure if we’re going to look any different against Penn State or Michigan…or, even, Michigan State and Nebraska. Which Maryland team shows up? If we continue to get annihilated by the premier teams from the conference, what does that sell to better recruits? How does this thing start to slope upward.

            I don’t see a bowl this year…Wish I did but there are far too many question marks at qb and the competition in the conference isn’t standing still or digressing. Everyone looks better except Indiana.

            I want “breakthrough.” I want what was advertised. What was advertised as breakthrough was taking down some teams we’re not used to taking down. Cupcakes, a couple bottom tier wins at home, one win against Rutgers…and a 50/50 against a Boilerwart is not breakthrough. All these slogans and proclamations of things changing go from clay pottery to silly putty.

  6. Four things I learned? Our football team should be renamed the Indiana Camels….There are four supporting arguments.
    1. Don’t know if we’ll ever get over the hump but we’ve learned to live with it.
    2. We are used to having severe droughts (scoring droughts, talent droughts, ticket sales droughts. Our Gatorade raining on a coach goes a long way!).
    3. We also seek an oasis: A winning season.
    4. There is always some sort of excuse that “broke the camel’s back”( a straw, a blocked punt, a weak arm).

    Added Bonus: We would now have a legit mascot and would not have to steal candy stripes from the basketball program.

  7. Beat. Do you display Purdue on your vehicle license plate as well? Yes, kids and change. Coaches like Rockne, Knight, Holtz, and even Mallory can give a pre game or half time rant. Play, players, and coaches could back it up. However if a coach continues to rant without backing it up by play, players, and coaches the risk of losing the team will eventually play out. It will be seen how IU football does.
    I remember the old 20,000 seat Memorial Stadium on 10th Street; on a Saturday afternoon while setting in the back seat of car passing the roar of the crowd in the 1950’s, my Dad telling story about him as 13 or 14 years old working and losing control of his team of horses as a teenager running thru the IU band as they practiced on the football field in the early 1930’s, my brother hitchhiking to the old Memorial Stadium to sell concessions in the 1950’s and tell how he saw gold and silver medalist Milt Campbell play.
    During WWI IU had difficulty fielding a football team. In 1943 IU football was suppose to be very very very good. However, several of IU football star players were called to serve including storming the beaches at Normandy. 1939 big ten passing leader and IU qb was one who lost his life in the war. (Hal Hursh). Billy Hillibrand was an All American back and there were several others who were called to serve. PERSPECTIVE

    1. Beat. Do you display Purdue on your vehicle license plate as well?

      And there you have it! Currently the funniest line of the year. Wow….that one gave me a good chuckle. You made the jester laugh. Thank you, t.

  8. You know I came to this site every 2-3 days since the end of last season. I don’t remember any stories saying that the offensive line wouldn’t be able to block, the receivers wouldn’t be able to catch, the defense wouldn’t be able to tackle and the special teams would be anything but special. I do remember lots of puff pieces about more depth at every position and how the S & C program had made everyone bigger, faster and stronger. Oh yeah, and the players now all love each other. But the lofty expectations of “break through” in year 1 have been replaced with the reality of “flush it” in year 3. And because TA and his staff have no D1 head coaching experience, they have no first-hand knowledge on how to right the ship. Despite supposedly bigger, stronger, faster and more talented players, year 3 of TA looks a lot like year 2 which looked a lot like year 1. So far an ugly win, an uglier loss and a glorified scrimmage against a bad FCS team. Another Indiana school get’s to wake up the echos, we are left flushing the memories. And because some coach somewhere finally had a winning record after 5-6 years, we are supposed to endure this experiment for 3 more years? This is year 5 of TA’s defense. These are his guys playing his system for his hand-picked defensive coordinator, and yet they still don’t know how to tackle? 9 games left to win 4 more… or find an experienced coach and staff that can.

  9. Forward slanted logos, black helmets, pep talks, rocks, parts of battle ships, fireworks, playground for kids, facilities updates, new scoreboards, groundskeepers, parking, road construction, philosophies, expectations, hopes, promises, strength and conditioning, and on and on it goes.

  10. Maybe we should refer to Glass….as Chief Justice Fred? I think the Hoosier AD has a lifetime appointment. He should attend the games in a robe. Maybe he secretly tucked the lifetime appointment into Article III of the Candy Stripe Constitution when forming a student athlete’s ‘Bill of Rights’…or something?

  11. H4H, yes it does seem some have lifetime appointments whether robes are visible or invisible. Fred Glass should always wear his candy stripes robe, even to bed….Never seen without his candy stripes. The IU gig has been good to him. Maybe, other administrators including the prez, the board members should wear robes of candy stripes at both, all basketball and football games. That way they can readily and easily be identified for whatever successful or unsuccessful results that are produced. After all these folks are paid pretty well. (Lifetime appointments until and if one decides to move on…mostly by sacred networking for another lifetime appointment opportunity…until one’s lifetime is up). It’s all over and there are many many many many many examples.

  12. sacred networking

    Love that one too….You’re on a roll, t. “Sacred networking,” indeed. It is everywhere and it’s ruining our country(more like ‘ruined’ in past tense) because few get to come from “nowhere” to get a shot anymore(whether politics, business, entertainment or sports). The insiders forever keep their descendants on the inside…The roads are blocked for everyone else. The rich get the keys to the car and the corporation to keep their family trees and “networks” richer. Lifetime appointments for all. There is one highway for those in the “sacred network” always leading to those lifetime
    appointments. Everyone else gets all the scraps thrown out the window.

    Love the idea of all on the IU boards, trustees, presidents, AD all having to wear the candy striped robes to be “readily and easily identified.” Classic.

  13. You made me chuck a couple times….That’s all that counts. Just put them all in suits made of cash….These are known as ‘wear once’ throwaway suits.

    I shall dedicate the following because you are on a roll! Rollin…rollin’….rollin’

    Maybe I didn’t “sacred network” enough with Scoop brass/moderators…?

  14. The other big problem …is the beyond politically correct society we now live in. Tongues are tied so much in facades to be kinder and gentler hypocrites…and ‘do-gooders,’ I don’t know how a coach finds any means to motivate outside of being Tom Allen on his pogo stick.
    Don’t cuss…Don’t smoke….Don’t drink. God damn it, left my cigarettes at the bar. But are we kinder and gentler with all this lassoing of speech….? Sure wouldn’t know it by mass shootings, police brutality and gang violence. But I digress.
    I wouldn’t want to be a coach in this day and age….The pay ain’t worth the microscopic examinations done by the judgment specialists and ‘Big Brother’ who never get their lives microscopically examined 24/7.

  15. Yes, suits made of CASH. MOST APPROPRIATE! I could see it now. The blue ribbon committee, administrative and board meetings including those who are going to wear the suits made of cash. Vendors would jump in bidding on the job. After millions spent on researching the idea. All involved in secret meetings would insist that suits should be made with real CASH. They would seek donations, tax dollars, and gifts. Any other money needed would be added to college tuitions and other costs to attend the university including university branches. Once the suits were distributed, they would never be seen anywhere in public (though it is a public university) (it wouldn’t matter public or private it would still be the same). However, suits made of CASH would exist but only be seen by those wearing them.

  16. OSU coach looked like a focused kinder, gentler, do gooder as his Buckeyes slayed the Hoosiers. His pre game pep talk was probably; After the game…
    Option 1. if you play this way and win by this much we will eat here. Option 2. if you play this way and win by this much we will eat here. Option 3. if you play this way and win by this much we will eat here. Your Choice. Let’s Go.

  17. Those with ‘Suits Made of Cash’ are distributed ‘InfraFred Glasses’ specifically designed to see the other ‘Suits Made of Cash’….?

    If we’re going with ‘Suits Made of Cash,’ and who will be the next in line, I must do this.

  18. There once was a time that collegiate sports were truly amature. I saw a football photo of Army vs Penn State in 1946. Army had regular helmets (no facemask), but PSU still had leather helmets. I’m sure they were rubbing their noggins after that game. From the 40s – 70s, sports reflected the culture of the area the schools were in. Pennsylvania, Ohio — people who worked in industry building things. They work 9-5, Mon – Fri, with weekends off. Whistle blows on Fri at 5 and they’re sitting in the stands at the local high school football game. In college towns, they were all about Saturdays. Cathedrals like Michigan, Ohio and Beaver stadium were filled with people. Indiana folks during the fall were too busy producing food for country, so no football. Fall drifts, harvest ends and then the snow and ice comes, and the farmers retreat to the barns inside. Round ball brings months of comfort waiting for the soil to thaw.

    Our football Big Ten brothers had a massive head start as television started bringing in revenue. Football was far more valuable monetarily than basketball. The shift happened, while all the schools were able to turn the abundance of football fans into cash and do so without having to pay their labor on the field.

    Football brings in massive revenue. Basketball brings in really solid revenue.

    While this shift was happening, Indiana University’s athletic department was dominated by a coach who was all about the purity of basketball. Bob Knight is the ultimate paradox. Harkening back to a Woody Hayes style of ethos: highly demanding, autocratic, dedicated to his school and even shunning money. And, like Woody, Knight won. He was hanging banners. Unfortunately for Indiana, the unintended consequence of that success led to some limp wristed, spineless ADs who thought austerity was a value to be embraced. Knight set the values of the time. They were good ones, but they didn’t serve for what was happening outside of basketball. OSU and Michigan were in an arms race, became the superpowers of the Big Ten, while the little satellite states were happy to dominate sports that didn’t drive even a fraction of the revenue that football did. Eventually, Knight was running a program where the men’s and women’s team had to share the same court, while MSU, OSU and Wisconsin were out building brand new stadiums (funded by football revenue!), practice facilities and attracting talent. Indiana had an amazing gameday atmosphere that is still unrivaled in the Big Ten, but our facilities were those that barely looked better than a high school.

    I have a lot of criticisms of Fred Glass, but this isn’t binary. He did something important: brought Indiana’s two main revenue sports into the modern era…from a facilities perspective. From a coaching staff and team perspective, I think he has missed more than he’s hit. Indiana’s budget constraints are a challenge for sure. But when you routinely pay your football coaches at the bottom of the Big Ten, you get what you pay for.

    Anyway, it’s complicated. Tired of all the “this guy is a bad guy”, “this guy is a god who needs to be worshipped,” angles to these discussions. Everything has light and shadow. Perhaps, our lowly budgeting issues and the strong ethos to “doing things right” will keep our program safe, while the FBI exposes more and more D-1 programs to the shady underbelly of those playing the blackmarket. Rumors are that Duke and Coach K might be at risk. Or, nothing happens, and Indiana’s moralist way of operating will keep us behind all the other schools who don’t share those values. So, lots more Saturday blowouts with tailgaters > fans in the stands.

    Isn’t it getting a little old having to rehash basketball arguments in football threads? If one can’t see that investing in football to bring in revenue to support the basketball program, than you should be fired forever. You do not get to be CEO of Indiana Athletics anymore. Austerity isn’t going to beat anyone anymore. Indiana has to invest to compete. And, they’ve sort of done a lot in that area.

    1. Could be wrong, but didn’t Greenspan initiate a lot of the stadium expansions and various facilities improvements?

      We should have had a new basketball stadium ….no matter the cost. Find those rich donors Purdue seems to keep locating. Never agreed with putting Skjodt’s name on the place….It’s Assembly Hall, Knight’s Hall…or nothin.’

      Insulting that some former players who ran for the riches before banners have their names plastered in the building …while Knight’s is absent. Take three of the banners down and the let Skjodt have the name…and let super-rich former player’s have their glorious contribution to greatness with their billiards rooms.

      Far as I’m concerned, anyone hired by a committee room farce is a farce. End of story.

      1. H4H,
        I don’t disagree with your comments with the one exception regarding the former players. I would view their actions as trying to do what they can to promote a program which no longer includes the coach they played under. A lot of former players wouldn’t do that, so let’s cut them just a little slack in that regard.

        As for the remainder of your comment, I do not disagree right down to the AH fiasco. However, does not every comment you made point right back to the central problem? We like to point fingers at the coaches, the AD, and the Admin, but never back at those who hold ultimate responsibility. The ultimate responsibility lies with those who select the BOT members who have the control over all things IU. The Indiana voters and the IU Alumi are the absolute core of what is Hoosier Nation and bear ultimate responsibility for the dysfunction we see in IU FB & BB.

        1. Can you list the board members names and phone numbers…? Why doesn’t the HT address these board member issues? Shouldn’t the press be a bit involved(especially a hometown paper like the HT) and offer some opinion pieces/editorial calling out (or, at minimum, ‘calling to notice’) those in charge sitting on their thumbs during the flatlining of both major sports?

          You want to keep driving at the fan base’s ultimate responsibility. Last time I checked, I think we still have freedom of the press….Doesn’t the press often serve as a voice for the people? And don’t they also have a bit of a responsibility to keep us informed of those “anointed” to head IU Athletics behind the scenes?

          How tolerant is the press of losing football programs where ‘football is king?’
          Can a press proceed to communicate the frustration of a fan base? Should they adopt such a role…or simply act as a subservient arm of the institution for which they rely for their own economic vitality?

          Is there separation of ‘press’ from ‘state’ in Bloomington? Or, is there an ultimate fear to hold those you want to hold accountable…accountable?

          Should I write the hometown Bloomington newspaper to start identify these “behind the scenes” trustees sitting on their thumbs? And will they care? Or, do I simply cast my vote of disapproval by not buying a football ticket …and, maybe soon, a basketball ticket?

          Like I said…I don’t have the answers. But when it comes to stagnancy in our two major sports, there is plenty of sitting on the thumbs to go around….and I would guess the motivations to do so are varied along a spectrum of indifference, fear, cronyism and everything in between.

          1. Another question for thinkaboutit: Do you know the names of the trustees? Do you write any of them expressing your frustration?

            I’ll admit….I pretty damn naive in these matters. I just think the buck stops with the IU president…and the AD. When we fired Bob Knight, I remember the fall guy being Brand. Brand took the ultimate responsibility. People were marching on Brand’s doorstep.

            I guess we lost a lot of “marchers” on that rather marked date in our history. Nobody marches for losing. Should they? Hell, how many march for the destruction of freedoms..or to keep children safe in schools? And when you get right down to the nuts and bolts of all things moving people to an extreme passion for a cause, most marching days are gone. And then you have the gutless press…owned by some business tycoon and forever in bed with the cash of an agenda to protect a corporate interest.

          2. H4H!
            The BOT has a website! Go look at it! You will see some very familiar names like Buckner and Gonso. Hoosier Nation’s complaints have fallen on deaf ears within the IU power structure because they have no fear of any change. The biggest change comes from the Governor’s office, read the BOT website as to how they are appointed. 6 are appointed by the Governor, and 3 are elected by the Alumni. By those numbers the complaints should begin at the office of the Governor.

          3. Gonso? You need say no more…..YOU check those committee room names. Check the history of Fred and Gonso dealing in city politics to build Lucas Oil. I know my history, friend. I was discussing it 8 years ago…on Basketblog and Hoosier Scoop. I know where all the nepotism and cronyism began. I know the motivations behind running Kelvin all the way to Texas…and painting all those kids as degenerates and evil slobs.

            And it would do absolutely zero good if I write my Gonso….or my roBOT…or my Fred Flintstone…or my congressman/congresswoman….or my Editor in Chief at HT.
            I will vote with my silly doctored pictures(for as long as Jeremy allows)…and with my measly pocket change to not buy a ticket for farces and fiasco.

            What will you do? How do you move the flames of change? Are you attending games? Are you plastering t heir names on the back of your t-shirt?

          4. think- I’m no mover or shaker. Me writing the governor is going to be about as effective as writing Zoe Saldana for a date.

            I think too many residents and students already go to Hoosier football games. Are they brain dead? Maybe they all played football decades ago…and the Swiss cheese has taken hold…or taken mold?
            Hell, I would not attend a basketball game knowing the last charlatan was the coach.
            I’m a terrible fan. I won’t support obvious ineptitude and nepotism.
            I love an honest underdog…but were not even that anymore. When I go to the carnival/county fair and I have to shoot into those narrow/fixed basketball rims to win I prize, I don’t beat myself up too much for not draining five in a row. I also don’t beat myself up for what’s happened at IU for the last decade. I drop the cash once in a blue moon for fun…but I have no expectations nor do I cheer a hell of a lot for the carnival operator.

  19. Rural certainly had something to do with it but it wasn’t all about farming. Many township schools and small town schools didn’t have the #’s to field a FB team. I know I attended 2 of them because I was a farm kid. The school I ended up graduating from was a consolidation of 3 townships and started the HS FB program when I was a sophomore. My graduating class had only 48 on the stage and the HS FB team had 29. No wonder BB is king in Indiana.

    1. Well said. Cities/large towns vs rural. There’s clearly more than just the simple view I posted. But that’s the dynamic.

      One abnormality about football though: the town of Berwick, PA. It was the high school that Ron Powlus went to. Berwick only had one place to work in the town: a potato chip factory. They were a measly little 3A School that only suited up 40 guys. Everyone had to play on both sides of the ball.

      They scheduled all the big schools, would get on a bus, stroll onto their home field with barely functional equipment and torn up uniforms, and just SMASH them. They won the USA Today National Championship 3 times in 4 years (I think…can’t remember exactly).

      A really cool small town story. Ted Koppel featured them back in 1993. Think you guys would dig this watch: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yhJ-7m1zItw

      1. Gents, because FB elevated in other regions doesn’t mean that it had to in southern Indiana. Yes IU probably holds some culpability. But as I posted yesterday during portions of the 50’s & 60’s bracketed my school days the 3 neighboring but different school corps. I attended did not have FB until my Sophomore year. 1 of those schools is still a sovereign institution (never consolidated) and to this day has no FB program at any level. How is IU linked to that? That school is 9 miles from Valparaiso, 66 from ND and 77 from W. Lady. I’ll bet a tall sum several in the community have been to VU BB games. Probably also PUke BB games but none know where the VU FB field is or been to a ND or PUke FB game. Is ND or PUke responsible for that.
        When I was 10 years old my family moved to eastern/central Ohio (close to the Pa. line) in a rural section of the socioeconomic Appalachian region. There this future Bob Cousy was introduced to FB and I easily learned it and really took to it. BB was a noticeable 2ndary sport in the state. The Ohio State University can’t take all that credit. It just happened. Now after a couple more thoughts I’ll halt this diatribe. ND had much earlier, loftier and more heralded success in FB than even OSU did. But yet Milan statewide had more impact on BB than did ND in FB. You know some people eat grits. I much prefer okra. Some folks like GM vehicles. I drive Ford products, eventhough I have a son who flies a desk for GM. Really pertinent to the conundrum topic. My $80.00 worth.
        I don’t know how some of you fellas do it. My fingertips are because calloused.

  20. There has been a lot of crying in the beer since Saturday’s beat down, so let’s play a little game of hypotheticals. Just suppose a miracle should occur, and I do say miracle lest anyone think I expect it to happen, that IUFB was to run the table the rest of the year with the one OSU loss being attributable to an injured star QB. How would most of our current comments look in retrospect?

    Let’s be honest, we are not even out of September yet, and judging by some of our posters the season is over. We don’t know that yet. We don’t even know for sure the health status of our starting QB. So how can we assume everything will be the same when we don’t have enough data in yet to make such assessments? Yes, I know past history is certainly relevant, but what are we told on any supposed sure thing investment prospectus? Past performance is no guarantee of the future. Why? Because strange things can happen even in the most unexpected places both for good and for bad.

    I can tell you, know one foresaw what the ’67 team would do. Everyone thought it would be better, but no one thought it would be a Rose Bowl team. Know that is ancient history for many, but you never know. Like I said, sometimes strange things can happen in the most unexpected places. Will it happen again for IUFB this year? I doubt it, but then again, that is why we play the games. You just never know.

    1. People were saying the same thing about Crean making a lot of comments look silly when he fooled us all and got to a Final Four….Hypotheticals don’t mean Jack.
      This OSU beatdown went way…way…way beyond not having Penix available. Massive sell job. So much drama from Allen…Will Michael play? Will Michael not play? Season on the brink.

      Mummies have shorter shelf life than a winning IU Football program.

    2. There has been a lot of crying in the beer since Saturday’s beat down,

      Duh…Didn’t you get the memo? Why do you think brewskies are now being served at Memorial? No reason to leave early now…Tears are now on tap.

      Question: Do we still have an ‘S Train’…..? I remember some chatter last season about this back who could run for 200 yards in a monsoon…and would then surely put up those sort of numbers against BigTen teams this season. Did that guy transfer….? So much talk about Penix and his bazooka arm made me forget about the running back who tames typhoons.

  21. It’s already happened by creative bowling. IU football has already won one bowl game this year against Ball State. It was called the Ruoff Classic.

  22. DD, I enjoyed your posts above. But I don’t agree with your theory about small town, farm-based communities being a part of the problem. If that were the case, neither Nebraska, Wisconsin, MN, Missouri or Iowa would have ever had a competitive FB program. No, I’m afraid the genesis of IU’s FB’s problems were due primarily to gross incompetence and a total failure to recognize opportunity. Decades later, we find that trying to catch up is very difficult.

    1. …or Mississippi or Alabama or Louisiana or Georgia…

      Rural Indiana doesn’t even know what podunk is compared to rural Louisiana.

      There have been guys in the NFL who played 7 on 7 ball in places like Montana. Even with just 7 on each side of the LOS they still had to drive many hours to find another team. I once worked with a guy from that setting and he said they would play all the teams within 7 or 8 hour drive and they still played each team twice to have a season.

  23. DD, while I enjoyed your comments above, I disagree that part of the reason for IU’s FB woes was due to small, farm-based communities. If that were the case, Nebraska, Iowa, MN, WI and Missouri would have had similar problems. I’m afraid the primary cause of IU’s failure to build a competitive FB program was simply due to gross incompetence and the failure to recognize opportunity. Now, after realizing how important and profitable FB can be, IU’s administrators are finding it very difficult to catch up and become competitive.

  24. Writing the season off is wrong and I hope the team improves a lot this week. The report from practice said it was the best they have seen from IU so the players woke up and figured out they need to play much harder.

    DD, I like your dream and it would be great if the team can do that but unlikely. Stevie Scott says he still believes in his OL but I wouldn’t any more or until they open holes for the RBs. I imagine coach DeBoer will ask coach Allen to replace Hiller with the performance so far. If the OL improves a lot then Hiller would stay.

    It was good hearing practice was so much better this week and having players realize they need to be much better. Maybe they believed their own hype about how good they would be and thought they could just walk out and play.

    1. V13,
      Always appreciate your perspective in these matters. I know the first two games were not exactly good barometers of the OL play, and if the glaring problem we saw in the OSU game is rooted in Hiller being ineffective, then the solution for that is self evident. My question to you as you look at this issue is, “Do you see this as much of a coaching or talent issue as you do a product of IUFB’s inability to keep defenses from crowding the line of scrimmage with so many bodies. In other words, having 7, 8, and 9 men in the box. I would think it to be kind of hard for an OL continually dealing with numbers like that to be consistently effective. Would be interested to hear you thoughts on this.

      1. My biggest concern about Hiller is the lack of development of underclassmen going into this season. He has two years of recruits for the OL and yet they haven’t really established themselves on game day. There just seems to be a lack of development in the players and that is a major concern.

    2. V13- Writing the season off is wrong. But at what point is a fan base allowed to simply call out the slogan BS for what it is? Why is Allen no longer speaking of “breakthrough.” This term he invented was for what purpose? I thought it was a standard he was holding himself accountable.
      And that, my football expert friend, is why fans soon throw in the towel. We’ve been here before…and we’re tired. Year …after year. Losing? I can deal with losing. Losers who abandon their own standards with a single flush? If you set a standard, then live by it. Don’t we all have to do that at our jobs…and in our family lives. Doesn’t somebody eventually notice talk is cheap when you sell big things…and offer crumbs in return? And will you keep getting the love at home and in your job if you keep selling the moon…and then later, conveniently, stop noticing the moon? Last time I noticed, JFK kept his promise to get to the moon. We can’t keep a promise to win one big football game in 50 years….when that’s the sell job of a coach’s own doing to get paid millions per season?

      You are the football expert, V13. I’ll happily concede to your football expertise…But can you expect anyone to take the field and fully support anything when the goal line is always moved…or, worse, simply ignored or forgotten?

  25. UConn’s football stadium has a capacity around 40,000. Their avg. football attendance for 2018 was 20, 924 (50% of capacity). Memorial Stadium has a capacity of around 52,000. Our avg. football attendance for 2018 was 40,965(80% capacity).

    Is the University of Connecticut in jeopardy of folding? Should Patrick Ewing throw in the towel knowing there’s no money for his basketball program? Why don’t UConn fans support their football program? Maybe they don’t chew tobacco?

    1. Why would the Georgetown basketball coach be worried about UConn’s football revenues?

      Dan Hurley is the basketball coach at UConn.

      1. I wondered about the Ewing comment too Chet!

        Wonder if Jester been into the happy juice too much too early! Other than that, his comments were pretty spot on. Kinda like on Belushi in Animal House. When he gets on a roll, you really don’t want to stop him!

        Happy Thursday wishing for Friday.

        1. Let the wonder set you free!

          O.k. …I’m out of here for a while.

          Chet- I have a special present just for you.

  26. Oops…My bad, Chet. Brain fart. Georgetown. And I watched quite a few Georgetown b-ball games last year. My head is going whack. And Ewing’s son even ended up coming to IU for a season…and I still messed that one up. I knew that. Guess I played too much football. Also got the crap beat out of me a couple too many times. Too many fist fights that didn’t go my way. I guess I should have learned to punch back.
    You wrestled. Did you get your head banged against the mat very much? Did I mensha I have dementia?

  27. One thing I can count on when I brain fart (which is an ever-increasing event these days). Chet will be there in a hurley to let me know. …or maybe a Harley? He’s a baaaaaaaaaaaad man.

    When did your sense of humor die, Chet?

  28. Cooper Field is Georgetown(2500 seats)…is Ewing home…1800 avg. attendance in 2018(70%)…1800 butts in seats and still a lower % than our capacity? How much basketball revenue does 1800 seats provide?
    Pratt & Whitney Stadium at Rentschler Field(40,000)…is Hurley home….20,000 avg. attendance in 2018 (50%).

  29. I have a “spot on” my shirt…Coffee juice. Don’t know about much else. Hell, it’s been 40 years since I hit any weed. Don’t even know the current nicknames…Somebody said “Blunt” to me the other day and I thought they meant Emily.
    Don’t do much “juicing” of any sort. Au naturel…all the way.

    But if any of you guys ever want to get plastered, I know a guy in Montmartre.

    1. H4H,
      You never disappoint. That was classic run even by Jester standards. Don’t ever leave, it wouldn’t be fun anymore.

      Bravo!!!

  30. Harv, I’m a wreck. I spend about an hour a day working on keeping my limbs moving and being able to stand upright. My neighbors think I am heavily into fitness when it is actually physical therapy to perform activities of daily life.

    It not so much the years as the mileage.

    I have no idea about my cognitive deficits. That’s the thing about cognitive deficits.

  31. You seem pretty damn sharp to me…You certainly catch me in enough boo-boos. I have absolutely no idea how I placed Ewing at UConn. My wiring is shorting out, I guess.
    Just ask Jeremy…I send him enough corrections after every post that it must drive him nuts. Bless his heart, he still does my requested edits….

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