Penix out for the season with clavicle injury

Indiana redshirt freshman quarterback Michael Penix Jr. will miss the remainder of the season with a right sternoclavicular joint injury, according to a release from the program.

Penix underwent surgery on Monday, the release said, and it was determined following the surgery that he will not return.
 
“We feel really bad for Mike,” Indiana head coach Tom Allen said in a statement. “He’s worked extremely hard and had a great season. He’ll recover from this and get bigger and stronger this offseason. Mike has a very bright future with the Hoosiers.”

Penix finishes an injury-riddled 2018 season with 110-of-160 passing for 1,394 yards and 10 touchdowns. He was removed from three games early, including late in the second quarter of a 34-3 win over Northwestern.

Allen talked Monday about the need for Penix, just a 202-pound, 19-year-old lefty, to put on muscle mass to sustain the rigors of Big Ten football going forward.

“He needs to get bigger, needs to gain a lot more muscle mass on his frame,” Allen said. “He has a good frame. We have a good plan for that here, for him to continue to grow in that area and just put on good weight, get thicker and all those kinds of things to be able to take the hits he’s going to take at this level.”

A right sternoclavicular joint is where the sternum and the collarbone meet. It’s rare to suffer an injury of this type. According to a 2015 study, 3 percent of all shoulder injuries suffered by football players are of this variety. The Chiefs’ Tyreek Hill suffered the same injury in September.

With Penix out, the Hoosier offense goes back into the hands of last year’s starter, redshirt junior Peyton Ramsey, who lost out to Penix in a camp battle.

“I told myself I wasn’t going to run from it and I told myself at the beginning of the year, I didn’t know when my number would be called, but I had a feeling that, at some point, this team was going to need me,” Ramsey said in October. “It really has to do with the people here and the guys in the locker room.”

In the weeks that followed, the Hoosiers learned the value of a competent backup.

Ramsey has completed 113-of-157 for 1,302 yards and nine touchdowns. His efficiency rating, 156.73, is just a hair below Penix’s 157.56.

But with the injury to Penix, redshirt freshman Jack Tuttle, who has seen more limited action, will bump up to the primary backup role. Tuttle, a transfer from Utah, has thrown for 27 yards on 5-of-10 passing.

As a combined unit, the Hoosiers under first-year coordinator Kalen DeBoer has been able to successfully juggle quarterbacks, as well as some missing pieces along the offensive line. IU is the No. 1 passing offense in the Big Ten, and the offensive line has allowed the fewest sacks per game (1.4) in the conference.

62 comments

  1. Well, the situation doesn’t exactly inspire confidence. On the other hand, Ramsey has clearly show he’s more than a little-sisters-of-the-poor fill in. In fact, there’s some poetic justice in the fact this season becomes his to finish off. Ramsey is no joke. And, while I think PSU is a tall order under any circumstance, Meatchicken and Purdue are still in play with Ramsey under center. That’s a tribute to him. Get better soon, Penix!

  2. I have been saying for weeks, quit scheming run plays for MP. So, how’d that work out? DeBoar better get real conservative with Ramsey. No unnecessary runs! If he goes down,…..well, good luck. Like some of you have been
    pointing out, the 3rd string guy should have been getting more real in game reps just in case. It’s now ‘just in case’.

  3. All of Coach Allen’s comments about Penix were apparent last season and we wait until for the 2019 season injuries and limited playing time to decide his body needs more work to sustain a Big Ten season! Tuttle better get ready to play the QB position might be down to just him for the Purdue game and the Bowl Game,

  4. Young man should have never been involved in a quarterback sneak…If I recall correctly, he took an initial very hard hit on that play.
    Surgery for this sort of injury is rare. Can be very dangerous if the clavicle dislocates in a posterior manner(pushes behind sternum against vital structures, trachea, nerves).

    Hope he makes a full recovery. I have had my doubts about his frame taking the punishment of this level of football.

  5. I sure hope they can beef MP up between now and next season. With PR at the controls IUFB will be very fortunate to finish 8-4. That’s assuming PU continues to have worse injury luck than IU at the QB position. PSU & UM will be very telling as to whether the OC change made a difference. Up till now most of the defenses have been at the low end of the B1G, now we will see how PR performs against upper echelon defenses with the new OC. DeBoer is a good OC, but with a weak armed QB you can only do so much. Unfortunate that a kid as good as PR has the one weakness which limits his effectiveness so severely against higher caliber competition.

  6. Although the news is most unfortunate, it is not surprising. With Penix, we had a chance to win two of the next three games and really finish a special season. Without him, we might beat Purdue. As good a job as PR has done, and I salute him for his performance and attitude this year, he just isn’t going to give the PSU, MI and Purdue defenses any anxiety.

    I’m not sure that adding 15 to 20 pounds to Penix’s frame is going to keep him from getting hurt. He just seems to be fragile. Either that, or he has really terrible luck.

  7. Wish Michael Penix the best and injury misfortunes turn into fortunes. An excellent talent except for one thing. He has to be able to play. Before season started I said over and over though qb stable was improved but IU did not have a deep stable of qbs. Quarterbacks still needed at IU.
    By season end it could be JT or even RT at qb. Though with 4 games left maybe IU can get through it with combination of PR and JT.

  8. Bad news about Penix for the team and fans. I hope he has a good recovery following surgery and it was clear following his ACL surgery he works hard at recovery. It is clear from pictures and the injury that it happened earlier than the QB sneak on a RPO when two big DL men fell on top of Penix.

    I wish Penix and the team good luck from this point on. Ramsey has cleaned up some issues IE bailing out of the pocket too soon, and has turned in good performances. IU will need him to make plays in the final three games to have a shot at winning nine or more games.

    I don’t buy the idea PSU is unbeatable for IU. They have had close games including Pittsburgh; despite beating Michigan they made a pedestrian offense look good in the second half. Too many are thinking Michigan has turned the corner with with the second half at PSU and the ND win but we don’t really know if they have or just went up a flawed defense.

    Maybe Michigan has figured it out finally just as we can’t be sure IU can take the previous games and go against very good teams and win. The evidence says IU’s offense will be able to score against the last three games on the schedule, so it is a matter if our defense continues to improve and get take-aways.

  9. IU has developed and improved physically, executing and confidence team wide throughout season. Of course at Penn State IU will have to take ownership of white out and use it for their own motivation. I suspect JT may be needed at some point.

  10. V13 – Agree the injury to Penix didn’t come on the sneak. There was one play earlier in the quarter where he was tackled and got up and adjusted his shoulder pads and grimaced. We’ll never know, but I don’t think Penix had 3 separate injuries. I think the staff kept trying to have him rehab hoping that it would solve the issue, but when he kept re-injuring himself, they finally decided surgery was the only option. What is so strange about his string of injuries is that there never was a monstrous hit where you thought, wow this is serious. He was in the game until he wasn’t, and on each occasion, he was taken into the locker room, which is in itself (especially 3 times) a bit unusual barring some obviously serious injury.

    This news will make the PSU game even more of a trap game for PSU. I hope they demolish Minnesota on Saturday and then look forward to OSU the week after the IU game, thinking IU will be a breeze without Penix. There would be nothing more fitting for PR to surprise everyone and lead IU to an unexpected victory.

    Even more important, I hope IU fans don’t give up on the team for the Michigan game and fill the stadium irregardless of the outcome of the PSU game. PR and the team deserve it!

  11. PSU is now playing for a chance to get into the final four and contend for a National Championship. I guarantee they will not be overlooking any team remaining on their schedule. And although I am not suggesting any conspiracy theories, we can be assured that IU will be served a lot of “home cooking” in Happy Valley.

    The MI game at home is IU’s chance to get a signature win this season. Finishing the season by beating MI and Purdue would be sweet. And it would get IU into a really good bowl game.

    1. Po,
      I agree, if IUFB is to get a “signature” win this season, it will come against UM. It just depends on how things shake out. I am not optimistic regarding the PSU game. The only time they looked vulnerable last year in B’town was when MP was in the game. Before and after, they had the game well in hand.
      However, if IUFB takes a beating against PSU, UM may not take IU seriously. There could be an opportunity to sneak one in with UM looking past IU to their biggest game of the year at Columbus.

      I’m sure what to make of the PU game as it is a rivalry game and the records go out the door in such cases. If IUFB could pull off a signature win, coupled with a PU victory, would be a breakthrough season. If only win at PU, still a good season to be built on. Next’s year’s team could shape up to be a good one, especially if a healthy and beefed up MP were available. Need to remember, MP will only be just turned 20 next year. The body is still maturing, but should be firming up. At least I hope!!!

      One little ominous rumor I picked up. Fred better get his checkbook ready, I think TA’s stock has risen precipitously. He has major Florida connections and a blue blood program opened up this week in the sunshine state.

  12. When home dog Gopher beats the Sandusky Nittany Lions, unfortunately, IU will litterally be in the midst of the Lions den the following week. Minny likely has a real ‘attitude’ at 8-0 and ranked 17th behind 2 loss teams. The entire place will be amped. Seldom has a team had more motivation and opportunity.

  13. It certainly seems that as good as Penix is, he is injury prone to be sure. It only figures, we finally get a good QB and he can’t stay healthy. Things never seem to break right for IU football. We final y get a really good coach several years ago who looks like he may turn the program around and he gets sick and dies. We get another good coach a couple of years ago and he has a really good QB and the kid is injury prone?? What is it with this program? We seem to be snake bit! It is hard to understand?

    1. Depth. A few to some programs have players on the bench as good as the starters including qb. So when the next man up at qb people ask where that guy came from. IU is fairly close with PR. Plus this year other players are better around the qb position. IU can still win more games because the whole team is better and getting better. The defense will have to shift into a higher gear and still has upside to do that.

  14. Here are the most recent compensation packages available for Big Ten FB coaches. Anyone will to guess what is IU going to pay TA in his next contract? Will it exceed Archie’s compensation package? If so, that would be a first at IU!

    My guess is a package guaranteeing $3.8 million per year, with an extension adding five more years to TA’s contract (Fred loves to trade time for cash). And Fred will probably include performance bonuses that would allow TA to exceed $4.4 million per year (he loves to minimize upside risk.) Even with that big increase, TA’s compensation would still be in the lower third of the Big Ten.

    1. Jim Harbaugh, Michigan, $7.5M: Third-highest salary in the country,
    2. Jeff Brohm, Purdue, $6.6M:
    3. James Franklin, Penn State, $5.7M:
    4. Pat Fitzgerald, Northwestern, $5.1M:
    5. Scott Frost, Nebraska, $5M:
    6. Kirk Ferentz, Iowa, $4.8M: Signed through 2025,
    7. Ryan Day, Ohio State, $4.5M: first-year coach is 8-0 — so he’s due for a raise.
    8. Mark Dantonio, Michigan State, $4.4M:
    9. Paul Chryst, Wisconsin, $4.2M: Signed through the 2024 season.
    10. Lovie Smith, Illinois, $4M:
    11. P.J. Fleck, Gophers $3.6M: His third contract extension will bump him to $4.6 million in 2020.
    12. Mike Locksley, Maryland, $2.5M:
    13. Chris Ash, Rutgers $2.3M: Buyout: $8.5 million.
    14. Tom Allen, Indiana, $1.8M: The lowest salary in the Big Ten ranks 71st nationally.
    Figures from USA Today coach salary database.

    1. These salaries are obscene.
      It’s no wonder people think college athletes should be paid.
      They’re risking life and limb (quite literally) to play a dangerous game so coaches and administrators can cash their checks.
      I love college sports, but something is WAY out of whack here.
      4.4 million a year for the MIDDLE of the BigTen Coaching salaries?

  15. Tell them, thinkaboutit….Do you think I believe there’s anything strange about his string of injures? For the last 16 months(from the first time I saw an actual picture of this young man taken by Chris Howell of HT) I have questioned the pushing of Michael Penix when he is simply not a physically built enough specimen(at least not right now) to engage in BigTen football.

    Coaches had to be almost willfully ignorant to not recognize such a fact. He was not ready. He was getting banged up against cupcakes early in our schedule. Doesn’t matter what play it happened. He has a nice accurate big arm and a level of poise that shows promise.

    Most of you were saying he would be just fine and you had no concerns about his size or durability. Do I need to find your old posts? If this would have been Coach Wilson, there would have been far more criticism. A winning record shouldn’t disguise the fact (or limit the same levels of criticism Kevin Wilson endured for allegedly encouraging guys short of ready to be ready) Penix wasn’t ready for this level of physical football.

    Everyone wants a winner in Bloomington. But perspective should be maintained when it comes to accelerating the coveted “breakthrough” via risking the health of young men with the obvious gifts but not the readiness/durability/frame/strength. Allen now offering quotes long overdue about “beefing up” Penix for next year make him sound oblivious to the always obvious. Bowls and bowl aspirations shouldn’t come with blinders.

    1. H4H,
      I don’t disagree with your concerns regarding MP’s physical build at this point in his career. The biggest problem is how do you tell a highly talented QB that he can’t play for you? Can you say “Transfer Portal?” That’s part of the problem, but I think it may be a symptom, not the root cause.

      One of the concerns I have had regarding the “Dual-Threat” QB’s is the potential for injury. Basically when you turn your QB into another RB, you have shorten his career. We all know the short shelf life that RB’s have. For added proof look at the highly shorten nfl career of Cam Newton.

    2. H4H,
      I might add, unless I am mistaken, I don’t think any of MP’s injuries came from passing plays. I think they came mainly from running plays. Don’t have a problem with a QB who is mobile and able to take advantage of the defense, but as a designed part of the offense, is questionable. I know TA loves dual threat QB’s because of the stress they put on the defenses. However, there is a reason why you don’t see many have long careers in the nfl and sometimes even in college. Terrible to waste great passers in that way.

      1. All very insightful, thinkaboutit. I don’t disagree. But there will still be situations where a qb might not be able to get rid of a ball quick enough…or be blindsided(even without any run-pass/run design options).

        I don’t think Penix could have been saved from injury even if absent run options. He simply didn’t have the frame to survive at this level in any manner of play-calling/play design.

        Until his body is ready(if ever), he should have been spared potential injury and harm. That’s what adults do…First line of protection is not the line. First line of protection is the common sense from the coach. If it means the kid transfers…then so be it.

        They are falling like flies in the NFL….I think it’s proving we’ve crossed into new territory. The forces and size of hits in the game are exceeding even the best bodies abilities to sustain ever-increasing levels of punishment. I don’t have the answers…but the juicing up and PED’s has brought us here. New rules and “targeting” flags aren’t going to slow down the train very much. It’s more brutal than ever…and the quarterback position comes with great vulnerability to go along with the glory. Wide receivers part of the extremely vulnerable bunch …as well(as you have pointed out). And if you “fatten up”/ “beef up” quarterbacks and receivers too much, you’ll take much of the finesse and freedom of movement away.
        We’re at a very interesting point in football….Two pathways colliding. The desire to protect and minimize concussions/injuries…meets the train of PED’s and near freaks of muscular/strength nature. I don’t see injuries ever declining…Too much ego to get bigger and stronger. And if you don’t get bigger and stronger, you’re left at the station(or on injured reserve).

    3. Yea, let’s not play our best player because of his build. They said the same things about Kyler Murray and Lamar Jackson. Obviously Penix’s injury track record hasn’t been stellar but if the kid is healthy enough to play, he’s going to play.

      1. I would guess most NFL qb’s have less chance of brutal hits on NFL teams than an IU qb against their foes (especially the ‘Murderer’s Row’ from the East). Far better athletes combined with far better protection…combined with a culture to protect the quarterback even more than what’s present in the college game.
        Secondly, it’s not just a question of “build” or fragile frame….It’s the common sense that tells you a guy experiencing repeated injuries is less durable than even his frame suggests.
        Lastly, he’s not played a full game against one powerhouse team from our conference. His injuries this season have come against the ‘Muffin Row’ of the conference as opposed to the ‘Murderer’s Row.’ How well does he get protected against the best from our conference? How much harder are the hits from 5-star linebackers and corners found on OSU, Michigan…and PSU?
        We are basing are glorious turnaround while having nothing to gauge our qb protection/qb runs or overall team performance against the top three teams in our division. Our team has played one of the top three…without Penix. Maybe he makes a difference…or maybe he’s knocked to Florida and never playing football again.
        With Michigan and PSU ahead, it may be a blessing in disguise that he misses the remaining schedule from an injury that could have been far worse.

  16. Michael Penix gave his all to IU Football this season; helped IU to a 7-2 record; to becoming the #1 pass offense in the B1G; and playing an exciting brand of football with our new OC DeBoer! Get healthy Mike and come back strong to lead Indiana even higher next season! Peyton you have been awesome as a back-up so far. But these last 3 games are with you as the starter. I have noticed your improvement this season. Show us and the college football world exactly how good you are. The rest of our team is playing solid, good, motivated football! Lead us to victory(ies)!

  17. I believe Penix’s first injury, that occurred last year against Penn State, was on a pass play. It had nothing to do with him running the ball and taking a hard hit.

    Suggesting that Penix should have been prevented from playing because of his relatively slight build is ridiculous. The young man wants to play football. He committed to play for IU because he believed he’d be given a chance to compete for the starting position. He was either going to play for IU or some other University. As suggested above, if, after he arrived on campus the coaches would have told him, “you’re our most talented QB, but you can’t play until you gain 30 lbs. because we’re afraid you might get injured,” Penix would have transferred to another school and played there. At worst, one could criticize IU’s coaching staff for calling too many designated running plays after his first injury this season. Hindsight is 20/20, and last year’s injury to Penix’s knee had nothing to do with him running the ball. So all you can do is try to teach him how to protect himself by emphasizing S&I, sliding before contact, running out of bounds and “dumping” the ball on pass plays when no receiver is open. But if you eliminate designated QB running plays, you remove a key element of your team’s offense and then defenses start pinning their ears back and teeing off on the pass rush when its an obvious passing situation.

    Football is a rough sport. Injuries are a part of it. There’s no guarantee that a player won’t get injured. No one held a gun to Penix head and forced him to play college football. So if you say he should not have been allowed to play until he got bigger, you’re really saying he should not have been recruited to IU. Ridiculous logic.

    1. PO, that was a great post. If you don’t have a quarterback who can run a quarterback sneak, you don’t have quarterback.

  18. davis, I doubt anyone other than you had that thought. If you’ve followed my comments on this site since TA was promoted, you’d know that I have not been reluctant to criticize TA in the past. But I’ve also predicted the situation that Fred Glass now finds himself in. And have no doubt, while it’s the kind of position he wanted to be in, it is a precarious position. The decision he makes on the amount of TA’s new compensation will have a major impact on IU FB for many years to come. Offer TA too little (relative to other Big Ten coaches) and Fred shoots himself in the foot and reinforces the general belief that IU does not support its football program. He’d also risk having TA reject the offer and putting Fred’s cajones in a vice. The college coaching fraternity and recruits are paying attention, and coaching candidates across the country will form opinions about IU’s administration and the attractiveness of the IU job based on what Fred offers TA in the next two months. If Fred offers too little, he’s increasing the risk of losing TA to another school, diminishing IU’s ability to recruit better players in the immediate future and further solidifying IU’s reputation as a school that does not support its FB program. It could turn out to be a disaster.

    If Fred is going to risk making a mistake, I suggest he take the risk of being criticized for over-paying TA. Based on what’s at stake, it would be better to offer TA too much than to offer him too little. I doubt Fred will get crazy and offer TA the kind of money Purdue gave Brohm (that was crazy), but he’d be wise to exceed TA’s expectations with his first offer and secure his services for many years. So based on that, I’m going to change my guess and say that Fred will offer TA something just north of $4 million per year guaranteed, plus incentive bonuses, for at least a new five-year contract.

    1. PO, blame the internet for this one. My post “A lot of us here thought you were his agent, PO. Or at least his publicity man” referred to your post “Boy, it looks like Purdue got rolled! $6.6 million for Brohm? He must have a great agent.” I posted it as “reply,” but somehow several intervening posts were published. You certainly have not been a cheerleader for Glass; our disagreement re: Glass and IUFB compensation is long-standing and well documented (Glass cheap v. Glass doesn’t have the money). Also well-documented is your past praise for Pur-doo-doo’s hiring of Brohm (successful HC elsewhere) compared to Allen (never HC). I was calling out your about-face on Brohm. I hope this comes across as without rancor, I enjoy reading most of what you have to offer.

  19. Allen may be plucked for a top assistant position(possibly making more cash as an assistant than what Fred will offer as head coach), but I highly doubt he’s in much demand as a head coach. He’s going to have to defeat some of the big name programs in the BigTen for heads to really start turning.

    If he wants to remain a head coach for a power conference, he’ll stay at IU.

    Let’s not get crazy here. His name has not come up in any discussions to fill open positions at more prominent football programs rich in tradition. If he wants to go back to a coordinator…or assistant? That’s a different story. I think he could be a hot commodity under that scenario(as was Wilson).

    1. H4H,
      I wouldn’t become too comfortable in that thought. TA may be a hotter commodity than one might at first believe. The main thing TA has going for him is he has taken a traditional FB disaster and gave it a winning season. That raises eyebrows across the country of a potential rising coaching talent.

      I’ve seen coaches with lesser credentials than TA elevated to the top job of some blue blood programs. We may not see it as a winning track record, but others may. He has strong ties to Florida and has been making recruiting inroads into the state. Don’t think that will go unnoticed by the programs he has been pulling talent away from. Not talking about 5* or even that much about 4* recruits. It is the 3* depth recruits he is pulling away.

  20. You have way more confidence in his marketability than I…I would hope smart recruiters of coaches would look at who we’ve played. One of the softest BigTen schedules in years…and cupcakes opening the season were about a cream-filled as they get.

    This isn’t Mallory defeating OSU and Michigan in the same season….We were obliterated by OSU(to be fair, so have most others)….and have not seen anything of our performance against the other big pair of teams from the Big Three. The record shines on an old pair of shoes. Intelligent coaching searches would probably conclude more sample sets against high level competition is necessary.

    If we get annihilated against PSU…and Michigan, Allen will have the chance to claim all momentum was stolen because of the loss of Penix. We’ll see how many ‘blue blood’ programs believe that…I don’t see the plucking happening. Fred will pay him more…but nobody is going to throw the Clemson or Florida State sort of money at him(unless it’s for a well paid assistant or coordinator spot).

    Prove you can take down one or two of the big boys for a couple years straight (while continuing to rarely stumble against the usual bottom-feeders)…and then he claim he has turned around a truly notorious loser.

    1. I’m with H4H on this one. There’s a website “Power Ranking College Football Coaching Prospects” or something like that which evaluates (that is to say, is one sportswriter’s opinion) the seventy-five top prospects on the coaching poaching carousel, and Allen does not even make the list. Granted, that’s one website, but if TA were in serious contention for another P5 gig, he would certainly have popped up somewhere on the radar. Which is not to say that Glass would be ill-advised to make a preemptive strike and re-do Allen’s contract- he rolled the dice by promoting Allen and it appears that he may have won. Glass can double down on that bet now or pass. If he passes and IUFB is 7-5 or 8-4 next year, Glass may not have the cash to bet. If this year turns out to be a fluke, then the result of his original bet remains to be seen in 2021.

  21. Fred offers TA a new contract. TA feels the money is inadequate, he gambles on himself and rejects the offer, choosing to let things play out for another year. I mean, why not? He’s got a good QB, a team full of young but experienced talent, and a good coaching staff. Imagine this: a year from now IU is coming off winning its first bowl game in 25 years, it secures its second consecutive winning season, or maybe even wins more than seven games. TA is still the lowest paid coach in the Big Ten at less than $2 M per year (before bonuses). How many FBS Schools could afford to give TA a compensation package that greatly exceeds $2 million per year?

  22. There are 70 universities that pay their head FB coach a higher salary than IU currently pays TA. There are 49 schools that pay their head FB coach a salary of $3 Million or more. There are 31 schools that pay their head FB coach a salary of $4 million or more. And those numbers do not include bonuses! Heck, North Texas pays Seth Littrell a salary of $1,865,000 this year.

    I hope Fred does not become “penny-wise and pound-foolish.”

  23. Give Allen the moon…to coach a team yet to prove it’s really left the crater of the BigTen? Guess that’s why I’m not a rocket scientist.

    We gave Crean 30 million and a witches broom to circle the moon….proving anything is possible for any buffoon if the stars align. Now he’s at a “football school” and we’re left with a bucket game filled with football drool. Yippee.

  24. Based on these theories, Bob Knight should own all of Bloomington…..Instead, he’s wheeled in on a golf cart to a baseball game to the cheers of two security guards farting along the cart path.

    Man, everyone has lost perspective. What ever happened to proving something for more than a one night stand?

  25. One last fact to ponder: The amount of TA’s contract-buyout is $1.5 million. That’s chump change for any Power-five Conference school that wants to hire TA away from IU.

    1. TA isn’t going anywhere. He’s a lifer. Like I said before, he’s exactly the kind of coach Indiana needed.

      1. FS,
        I think you may be very close to the truth on TA. He is an Indiana guy and has a desire to build the IU football program. The only thing I would say, is when you get someone like this, don’t take them for granted. If TA is able to build a winning football program, you treat him with the respect he would deserve. Not many would take on the worst football program in D1 history for the money he accepted.

        If TA is able to build the IUFB program, you have to give him what he needs to keep it moving in the right direction. The main reason for the ongoing FSU FB fiasco is they refused to give Jimbo Fisher what he needed to keep the program competitive on a national basis. They complained he was always asking for more. So what happened? Texas A&M comes along and says we will give whatever you need, just win. I guess Fisher only winning FSU another national championship was not enough for them. That should be a lesson to Hoosier Nation. If by some stroke of luck TA should pull off the miracle of making IUFB relevant, don’t take him for granted.

        1. Agree completely with fs. Tom Allen would have to be fired to ever leave IU. But you have to reward goal achievers, risk takers and successful talent developers. Pay him across the board; immediate and significant bonu$, a salary increase, more $ to assistants, increase recruiting budget 5-7 × inflation and increase his contract buyout 100%. Strike while the iron is hot.

  26. Respect always comes with a big dollar sign….It’s always the egg coming before the chicken.

    There’s and old saying….”We’ve determined what you are…Now we’re just negotiating price.”

    Most people don’t know what the words “treated fairly” means in their daily grind and work-to-the-bone lives. I get so sick of hearing about guys getting paid millions upon millions in “fair” or “unfair” manner for influencing a result in a game. It’s already beyond fair! Is he worth the grotesque pay to secure his love to coach at Indiana? Honestly, I don’t give a damn. If you love the job, don’t treat it like a proposition to a prostitute.

    My Lord…We act like these coaches walk on water for a few wins against low hanging fruit. It’s insane. Archie’s salary is insane as well…as was Crean’s. Simply because something has become the norm shouldn’t mean your brain abandons perspective. These guys aren’t fighting wars, running into burning buildings…or policing tough streets. They’re basically unqualified social workers and salespeople who must sell a product to a highly matured teenager(yes, that’s sarcasm). Everyone with a decent slant and a smile can sell something to a child. Just ask Penn State. Why do we make these people gods? Are we just trying to steal all the right reasons to love something…?
    If you put 10 million dollars in a bucket for a wonderful painting to be created, will you attract the best artists? Will the brushstrokes be of passion and love or of sloppy greed and mere technique? And who judges the painting? Can’t you love IU Football for its beautiful and unique tragic existence juxtaposed in a museum of paintings rooted in power and greed…and created with the buying of recruits…and the cheating of kids a quality education(UNC)….? ….and manipulative tactics to influence recruits which may be disingenuous to the core?
    All we’ve done to sports over the last few decades is degraded its value by making it nothing other than about the dollars made and the dollars offered. Thank goodness for the Olympics…and whatever is left of the few sports pursued for love, achievement and the memories.

  27. Excellent post, think! And I completely agree with your comments above.

    I think people fail to realize just how competitive and driven a man has to be in order to become a head FB coach at a Power-five conference school. While everyone agrees TA is a good guy, loves Indiana and has the right values, it’s a huge mistake to assume that he does not have a lot of pride and a very healthy ego. A man like TA that must have a healthy ego, otherwise he could not do what he does or accomplish what he is accomplishing at. IU. It would be a huge mistake for Fred Glass to offer TA a contract that does not thrill him or make him super-excited. The worst case scenario is that TA feels disappointed by the terms of his new contract. It’s time for Fred Glass to exceed TA’s expectations.

    When I was nine years old, all I wanted for Christmas was a new Schwinn 10-speed bicycle. My Dad bought me a new bike, but it wasn’t a Schwinn, and it wasn’t a 10-speed. I was profoundly disappointed. All my friends had Schwinn 10-speeds, and I got a bike from Sears or JC Penny. It was slightly better than my old bike, but it was not as good as the bikes all my friends had. I immediately discovered that I could not keep up with my friends while riding my new bike. I was embarrassed, and the result was that my new bike sat in the garage and was never ridden again. It wasn’t about status, it was about not being able to ride as fast as my friends. I was competitive and I hated being at a disadvantage. I should have been happy that I got a new bike, but I was terribly disappointed, and therefor I hated that bike. Turns out that whatever money my Dad spent buying me that bike was a total waste.

    While it is about the money, it’s also about the statement that the money makes. It’s the recognition, the stroke to his ego, and the statement it makes to the rest of the college FB world. It speaks to the level of commitment IU is making to the FB program. It’s an opportunity to changes the narrative about IU FB. If Fred Glass has any “emotional intelligence” at all, he’ll be sure to offer TA a contract that exceeds his expectations. Offering something less could lead to a disaster.

    1. PO, you are right about the mindset of ultra-competitive people- not to mention the money. Does anyone think that Mrs. Allen is so enamored of shopping at the College Mall and candle-lit dinners at the Trojan Horse that she’d say, “Honey, turn down that additional $15,000,000.00 you’d earn during the next five years in [fill in the name of some other college town], we should stay right here in Bloomington because you, my love, are an IU lifer.” I don’t mean to slur Mrs. Allen, but let’s get real when we’re talking about money. Huge piles of it.

  28. “Human memory is short and terribly fickle.”

    fish, are you the type of person who only notices the criticisms but can’t recognize the praise? I once had an employee like that. During his performance review, I’d document 20 positive aspects of his performance and only one constructive criticism. He’d fixate on that one criticism for months, convincing himself that he’d received a bad review when it fact it was very positive.

    I’ve always said I like and support TA, and the majority of my comments about him have been positive. But he’s not my wife and therefor he is not immune from criticism. I’ve commented on some very good changes that he’s made that I believe have improved his program and made him a better head coach. Convincing Glass to pony up the money necessary to hire DeBoer, relinquishing the DC responsibilities and hiring the S&C staff and finding the money to keep them were all very positive changes, and TA deserves the credit. But on the other side, I believe TA has mis-managed Tuttle’s development and missed opportunities to prepare him to play should the two guys ahead of him get injured. And for a head coach with a defensive background, his last two teams have not been good tacklers.

    But TA has achieved success and now he deserves to be rewarded in a big way. I just want Fred to get it right.

      1. WOW! Just Wow. I’d call that quite a feat achieved by Kane/Allen. Didn’t realize till yesterday KW is the youngest DC in P5. Tip ‘O’ the hat!

  29. I doubt TA goes anywhere on college level as long as he gets a decent contract. Not sure if he would go PRO as assistant on staff if given opportunity down the road.

  30. I agree t. If Glass gives him a new contract at anything over $3.6 M per year, I think TA will be jump to sign it. But if the new contract keeps TA’s compensation at or near the bottom of the Big Ten, he might be offended by that.

    Since TA is a few years behind Fleck in terms of head coaching experience, and Fleck just got his third contract and a huge raise from MN, paying TA a salary at least what Fleck was getting paid ($3.6 M) sounds appropriate. And you can make an argument that TA deserves as much or more than Lovie Smith at IL ($4 M). Over the last three seasons, TA has a better record.

    No IU FB coach is ever going to get the kind of money that MI, PSU or OSU coaches get paid. IU’s FB revenue isn’t ever going to be high enough to afford that. That’s why Purdue was so stupid with Brohm’s new contract. But I can see a day when IU’s coach os the fifth or sixth highest paid coach in the Big Ten. And if it ever happens, those will be great days for IU.

    1. Po,
      You might want to look at the prior HC experience of one Ryan Day at OSU, and Lincoln Riley at OK. Other than being a few years younger, it is very eye opening. Which is why I say, don’t underestimate the market value of TA. Everyone has to remember that TA has moved the needle slightly on the worst D1 football program in history, that draws attention. The real question is, “If TA sees a similar situation setting to what Mallory faced, will he tolerate it?”

      We all hope if he is going to be successful he can be held at IU due to his loyalty to his home state with a reasonable, but significantly increased salary. However, if you look at the money being paid to coaches with less success than TA, it becomes questionable. Jury is still out of Brohm, but if he does not turn it around next year, TA is going to have a serious show and tell example, especially if he is able to sustain his own success.

      1. If Brohm doesn’t turn it around next year, TA will have a serious “show and tell example” of what? I think Glass would have an example of his own re: overpaying an HC after one good season. If IU bumps TA to the $3.5 million range, that has its logic beyond paying to keep TA in Bloomington; it would show to future potential hires that IU will indeed pay competitively- when performance merits it. But dropping huge money-bombs on coaches after a single decent season is foolhardy.

  31. Might want to fund the rest of staff as well as inTA coaching staff….especially the ones you want to keep. Stability

  32. Make sure to save some hamburger helper for Archie….Keep in mind this is a basketball school in a basketball state. We already lost our shot at Brad Stevens because we broke out the big checkbook and lengthy extensions for Crean. Archie is gonna feel like chopped liver because our football team can beat Rutgers and Northwestern. Will his bar be this low?

  33. Must be the strategy. Lower the basketball bar and raise the football bar if you Lol at this year’s pre conference basketball schedule so they both can meet in the middle. IU sports Equality as IU women basketball surpasses both men’s teams.

  34. I agree that TA probably does not want to leave IU….EVER. I believe TA is hoping that he never has to consider it. I believe TA hopes Fred Glass will give him a new contract that makes this issue moot. I believe TA has reasonable expectations about what IU can afford to pay him. But I also believe TA and his agent have there own definition of what a “competitive” compensation package means. So if Fred’s offer does not meet TA’s expectations, TA will be disappointed. And if he’s disappointed, IU could become vulnerable to losing him at some point in the future.

    How many of us would be satisfied making 45% to 60% less than our peers even though our performance was just as good or better than theirs? TA is a proud man. He is a very competitive man. He has an ego. His first priority is to provide for his family and he knows there is no such thing as long term job security in his profession. If he produces the same or better results again next season, proving this year was no fluke, his “marketability” will increase significantly. There should be no reason why IU can’t pay TA as least what MN was paying Fleck until recently ($3.6 M/year) will hefty performance bonuses on top of that.

    1. TA has absolutely zero to worry about providing for his family. He is a multi millionaire and top teams in the country would pay him well just as a DC. If paying me 45% to 60% less than my peers meant a couple of million a year with no where to go but up coaching IUFB, just hand me the pen.

  35. “P.J. Fleck is making $3.6 million this season under terms of his previous extension, which he signed last December, keeping him under contract through 2023. His new contract, pending approval, is a seven-year, $33.25 million deal that starts in 2020. A look at the key financials:”
    Salaries
    2020 $4.6 million
    2021 $4.65M
    2022 $4.7M
    The seating capacity of Minnesota’s TCF Bank Stadium is 50,000.

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