Hoosier offense falters in 59-50 loss at Rutgers

PISCATAWAY, N.J. — On a night where 3s clanked off rims and layups angled wide off glass, a dribble escaped Devonte Green’s grasp and fueled a Rutgers charge.

Nothing was working for Indiana offensively in Wednesday’s 59-50 loss, and just enough was going right for the Scarlet Knights, as Jacob Young’s transition lay-in missed and Geo Baker picked up the scraps for a putback.

The tightly packed crowd of 8,000 at the Rutgers Athletic Center exploded with cheers as the home team’s lead grew to 17 with a dozen minutes remaining. IU coach Archie Miller kept both hands at his sides, flicked both wrists and turned away in frustration.

This has been Big Ten play on the road, where jumpers and visiting teams alike have gone to die. It was the Hoosiers’ 3-point shot that was most morbidly afflicted, as they finished 2-of-18 from beyond, failing to find one until junior guard Al Durham connected from a wing with 5:18 left.

But the Hoosiers’ turnovers, 16 in all, were a poison pill in an already dangerous cocktail.

“You’ll look back on it when we watch the game, can you control what you can control?” Miller said. “You have to take care of the ball better.”

Just like their trip to Wisconsin, and just like their outing at Maryland, IU suffered from inefficient offense and the long droughts that followed. Unlike those games, the Hoosiers were able to cut back on Rutgers’ leads, recovering from an early 12-0 deficit and later cutting that second-half gap down to seven on Durham’s 3 at the 5:18 mark.

But there wasn’t enough there for the Hoosiers (13-4, 3-3 Big Ten) to defy the odds in Piscataway. IU hit just 32.2 percent of its shots to Rutgers’ 46.9. IU had just six assists to Rutgers’ 14. IU didn’t fold, but Rutgers was just tougher and more intense from the opening tip.

The RAC was the Scarlet Knights’ home, and it felt that way as each rushed shot from IU went astray.

“The game is dictated by the team that sets the rules. Rutgers set the rules right at the tap,” Miller said. “We had to adjust and kind of fight through it. The game was fast on offense for us, they really worked, they pressured. Their big guys did a good job of making things very difficult around the rim.

“It was one of those games where you have to finish through it. We didn’t.”

Some of the main contributors in the Hoosiers’ best performances of late were noticeably absent at Rutgers. Freshman Trayce Jackson-Davis, typically a consistent inside force, was just 2-of-6 from the field for four points.

Green, who starred in IU’s upset of then-No. 11 Ohio State, went 0-of-4 from the field. Backcourt mates Durham (2-of-9) and Rob Phinisee (3-of-10) couldn’t find their shots, either. They didn’t just struggle in the halfcourt but transition, as well, failing to produce points in key moments.

“Coach was really on us about turning the ball over, especially in transition,” junior forward Justin Smith said. “We gotta cut that down, especially when they give us the ball. We’ve gotta convert.”

Unable to hit from short-range, the Hoosiers could have used the bailout of the free throw line, but they didn’t get there very often. They were just 10-of-12 from there.

And deeper shots were just as fruitless.

Miller admitted those 18 triple attempts weren’t all the best looks, but he tended to give Rutgers, one of the best defensive teams in the Big Ten, a fair amount of credit.

Rutgers’ bigs not only had their way with Jackson-Davis at times. They were also physical versus ball screens, knocking back the Hoosiers’ guards on their dribbles. They were making it hard to move the ball, inevitably speeding up IU.

“They made 3s hard because of the way that they play,” Miller said. “You don’t get easy ones, or rhythm ones, especially in here, where they can dictate sort of the tempo a little bit.”

Miller and his players could take some solace in the fact that the Hoosiers didn’t fall completely flat, as they did in two previous Big Ten road outings. There is a hope that a maturation is in progress.

As the Hoosiers turn around and head to Nebraska, they have no choice to keep their heads up.

“I feel like we’ve matured, we’ve learned how to fight back, we’ve learned how to stick to it,” Durham said. “We’ve learned how to stick to the game plan, and just keep listening to coaches and keep having each other’s back. I feel like we learn from each and every game.

“I think we are going to get better from this.”


  1. Well, IU scored eight more points at Rutgers than Michigan State scored at Purdue, and thirteen more than Purdue scored at Illinois.
    The BigTen is absolutely crazy.
    Visiting teams beware.

  2. What a horrible performance. TDJ was a non-factor. The guard play was atrocious. Nothing from the bench. Smith has decent stats but he is a disaster handling or passing the ball. This is a flawed team. Archie looked lost. No answers! Hope those two guards coming in next year can shoot!

  3. I’m shocked that scholarship basketball players play basketball like that for such long stretches… missed layups, unforced turnovers, lack of urgency.
    And it happens every game for at least one 7-10 minute span.
    Honestly, I coached in a high school game this year where a team with maaaaybe 1 or 2 future DIII players went 9-for-11 from 3 in the 2nd half with most of their shots contested…

    IU just missed 14 in a row and most were WIDE OPEN. I’m at a loss. I’m usually just waiting for us to dribble off the back of our own heal, or throw the ball to the inside shoulder accidentally hitting an unaware defender’s hand who is playing token denial…. oy vey

  4. Seriously? These are Div I players? Archie, there are better shooters in the Hyper building than you have on this team.

  5. Stay on your window ledges fans. These are the comprehensive road records of the Top 5 NET rated Big Ten teams;

    MSU #12 ; 2-1
    OSU #17 ; 1-3
    MD #19 ; 0-4
    WI #24 ; 3-2
    MI #28 ; 0-4
    Total 6-14
    That’s a 30% win %.

    Incidentally, the Top 10 NET rated teams overall are 35-5. I would classify that as “elite”. The first team in these rankings with a losing record is…..AZ at 0-3 on the road and they are #16. I’ve watched them play a few times too & there are striking similarities in their coach and ours.
    #1. The look alike.
    #2. They’re both named “Miller”.
    #3. Neither of their teams can shoot a lick outside of their own iconic arena.


    1. Well Awz,
      It looks like the westlaffy crowd is out quickly on this one. We need to ask them to name one team who has beaten Rutger at their place so far this year. The answer is no one has yet and that list includes the likes of Seaton Hall, PSU, and Wisky. They beat the Hall, currently ranked #18, there by 20. Obviously, IUBB is not where one would like to see them but let’s not look at Rutgers as a doormat either.

      1. That’s all fine and dandy, but I’m not talking about JUST this game, against JUST Rutgers, at JUST the Rack…. this is now the 7th game where IU has had a 7-10 minute stretch without a FG. Most of those games were at home. This team is now shooting under 30% from 3… without single perimeter rotation player over 40%… that you can count on to knock down an open 3.
        Here’s the last 8 games: 5 home games, 7 games UNDER 30% from deep…

  6. I have nothing….Well, maybe something.

    Some on our Indiana team should be like Rutgers and play in “new Jersey.”

  7. Im with you Geoff. I would like to see SOMEONE, ANYONE make these players accountable PUBLIC for their P**S Poor shooting. Only Team in the state of Indiana that shoots worse than THIS TEAM is the Indiana School for the Blind. I for one would also like to hear someone ask the players at the podium after a game like this ..”How committed are you to playing for the Name on the front of your Jersey??? If you aren’t…then LEAVE do us ALL a F****ing favor and pack your bags . We seen your poor performances go give them to someone else and open a spot for someone that WANTS to be here. This is Not on Archie; hell you could hire Bird, Alford, Gordon…..and these kids STILL couldn’t hit water falling out of a boat.

    1. TJ you are an emotional fan. So I will give you the benefit of the doubt. The IU team is a very poor road shooting team. But there is no question that the kids are trying! Damezi and Jerome has open looks from 3 point range…clank. Rob, Devonte and Al each took poor shots and had open looks, all clanked until 5 minutes left in the game. Our transition defense was poor. You must run and watch the ball, to deflect the pass if possible. Someone please explain to Archie that you must play Trayce 35 minutes/game or until he is called for his 5th foul to win on the road!

  8. After tearing into the refs and earning a T calls started being called more equitably. After watching all the non-calls in the 1st half I had no doubt of the future action Coach Miller would take. Tonight showed ‘in spades’ how Freshman BB players piss their pants in early season B1G road games. Franklin and Davis will adapt quickly. But no excuse for Green. He’s done. Hang his # up in the unisex bathroom of a convenience store off campus in Fargo.

  9. I will use IU Ladies basketball example on this guy basketball blog.
    T. Moren occasionally comments on commitment of her players referring to practicing on their own in addition to practice like shooting baskets etc.
    My question is commitment on the men’s side. Do they practice on their own in addition to practice like shooting baskets etc?
    Sometimes IU Ladies struggle with shooting and free throws but overall are pretty good.

  10. The Rutgers coach Steve Pikiell is in his fourth season as head coach, Rutgers doesn’t have the rich basketball past that I U has, 8000 seat arena and other intangibles that I U claims to have, however which program is on the rise? Rutgers Basketball is in the fast lane and has passed I U Basketball that’s still in the slow lane of program improvement. I U Basketball looked down their noses toward Rutgers in the past calling their arena a high school size arena.

  11. All is good in professional sports world as many talk about self supporting attendance. TALKING ABOUT PAYING COLLEGE ATHLETES

    Garaunteed six figure income increased wage of 53%.
    Top league players up to half million
    Others to earn 200,000 to 300,000
    Full salary on maternity leave and other related medical benefits
    Housing for family and other child benefits
    Individual hotel rooms
    First class travel
    Opportunity for 50-50 revenue sharing

    (All those in favor of paying college athletes be careful what you wish for).
    And who cares about attendance and popularity of it all…ultimately send the bill elsewhere including fans, TAXPAYERS (because that’s where the owners, politicians, lobbyists and elites will send it)

  12. Then, of course there’s the college women basketball coaching contract. T. Moren base is low there are many opportunities to boost final pay which she will probably do. However, her base pay increase and attendance argument holds not much water. Just follow how the professionals do it

    Now, here’s what I really think. T. Moren’s contract is about where contracts should be on the men’s side.

  13. That goes for everywhere. Some will be higher based on success. However, about a $1,000,000 should be the threshold. That’s not a bad living.

  14. “Durham said. “…… I feel like we learn from each and every game.”

    Well that’s great. By the end of March, IU will be the most educated college BB team in the country not playing in the NCAA Tournament.

    I can’t imagine a collection of college BB players that could be worse shooters than this IU roster!

  15. All of our inside guys are restricted to playing close to the rim. Rarely see any of the primary group (Jackson-Davis, Smith, Brunk) with confidence around 8-12 feet.
    We’re without buckets in mid-range and long distance. It’s not rocket science on how to defend us. Defenses simply pack everything in….When one of our post player moves out, give him have his shot. Give our guards whatever they want from deep until somebody can prove to be respectable.

    If we had a premier 5-star point guard…I’m not even sure if it would make much difference.

    I’m beginning to think (in agreement with thinkaboutit) Jerome Hunter may holds a set of very important keys to our immediate future (until a wave of, hopefully better shooters arrives). Hunter needs to get up to speed quickly. He gives us versatility and somebody who can hit mid-range to deeper buckets. He can create some havoc to break our opponents simple formulas for defending us via packing everything in.
    We all know whose minutes should probably be narrowed/restricted.

    We don’t have an elite point guard…and that’s also a major problem. I used to be pretty critical of Yogi Ferrell, but now I’m realizing just how much he brought it every night.

    Most defenses have to pick their poison…Other than at the rim and on the glass, we don’t have a hell of a lot of poison. Our poison, until the cavalry arrives, must be in our defense, relentlessness on the glass…and MAKING free throws. More poison could come with continued evolution of post players and making some perimeter buckets.

  16. I also have some hope for this team because of Brunk. His pivot and turnaround bucket in the lane he splashed through the nets was something in his game not seen before. I think he shocked himself a bit.
    One of the BigTen broadcasters/analysts commented on how Brunk looks completely different than his early season games.

    In many respects, much of our team is still barely wet behind the ears. Many are trying to get up to speed quickly (after long and troublesome injuries). Jackson-Davis and Brunk combine a freshman adjusting to speed and depth of opposing talent with the challenges to meet a steep graph to improve on fast timetables.
    Those not “wet behind the ears” might as well be. Most are holdovers of another coach and continue to demonstrate large question marks regarding a willingness/propensity/desire to improve.

  17. O.K., here’s the question. Can IU win any of the remaining road games this season? Maybe the games at Nebraska and Purdue, but those are big maybes!

    But let’s assume the answer is “no,” because as we’ve witnessed, this team shoots worse on the road than they do at home, and as we witnessed last night, they don’t get to the foul line as often. So that’s seven additional losses. Let’s also assume that IU is going to lose two of the remaining home games. That would make nine additional losses through the regular season. Since the Big Ten Tournament is not being played in Assembly Hall, and given IU’s terrible history in that tournament, it’s reasonable to assume IU will go one-and-out in that tournament. That would make a total of 14 losses and a record of 18 – 14 before any NIT games. And that would make four consecutive mediocre (i.e., sub-par) seasons, three of which coached by Archie.

    I hope that forecast turns out to be wrong. I hope, at the very least, that IU can win one or two Big Ten road games this season and will win all the remaining home games. Or maybe this roster will rally late and win a game or two in the Big Ten Tournament. Any of those scenarios would allow IU to produce a 20-win season, which would be a sign of improvement relative to Archie’s first two seasons in Bloomington. But given how bad this roster shoots the basketball, who is optimistic that they will produce 20 wins this season?

    All I can say is that next year, Anthony Leal is going to have to be the best shooter since Jordy Hulls in order for IU to make it to the NCAA Tournament in 2021.

  18. How many games are we into the BigTen season? We’re six games in out of 18 TOTAL!

    Sky not falling yet…If we’re 3 games below .500 in conference play come a wicked stretch in mid February? Then maybe the sky is beginning to drop…Holy cow, some of you guys are out on the ledge.

    One last thought…BeatPurdue was onto something. This team has enough depth to be committing way more fouls. There may be a real “happenstance” result via more freedom to not play excessively careful…and rotations tightening up. Tell guys like Green..and DeRon…and Race to hack away. Rutgers is almost as bad as us at the stripe. We should have played way more aggressively. Does anyone on our team ever foul out? Who can we really not afford to lose in a game?

  19. Recruiting Very high level and skilled basketball players that can also shoot very well to start with that will transition to major league level of play….that will play excellent defense…that will demonstrate commitment…that will have great team attitudes…that can pass and handle ball…that have good basketball IQ.
    For years now IU men’s basketball have recruited incomplete players that have a couple things they can do but are somewhat limited whatever that might be…and often that limitation is shooting from free throws to field goals…thus resulting in the results that have represented IU men’s basketball for a log time now. Programs get down but IU men’s basketball has stayed down when compared to what use to be IU men’s basketball program standards. Otherwise, IU men’s basketball is ok.

  20. Oof. It’s really hard to watch this team play. In all my years, at any level high school and beyond, I have never seen worse shooting. There are plenty of open looks. Just like last year, teams will just chat on the lanes and watch our bricklayers work overtime to build their cathedrals of clang.

    This road crap is nonsense too. Two of the worst teams in the conference came in and played in Assembly Hall like they were shooting from their couch.

    Our guards are just awful. Still holding out hope for growth from Franklin and praying that Phinesse is just in a correctable rut. I can’t wait for Durham and Green’s graduation speeches.

    Absolutely painful watching this team play in conference.

  21. Hey Coach Miller!!!! why don’t you check out Jr Colleges for Transfers…Vincennes won National Championship last year and Coach Franklin has a 6’4 freshman guard shooting 42% from 3-land and 80% from FT. That kid is a better Shooter all by himself than the IU’s WHOLE TEAM added together.

  22. I remember watching D.A. 4 star @ 80 per espn recruited as shooter in State tournament (tv) South Bend vs Carmel. D.A. though had scoring stats was not a good shooter. South Bend must have played smaller teams. Carmel was just more physical and D.A. and South Bend at 26 -0 backed off. Carmel 63 S.B. 43. D.A. had like 6 points. Took shots with bad form, not close on shots, unagressive, Carmel just crowded him some. It could have been the long drive to Indianapolis. However, to me he looked like a Ball State or Indiana State type recruit.

    1. No sure where you were going with the Forester comment t, he is not exactly lighting it up on a very poor Temple team either.

      As for the shooting woes, everyone needs to remember a few things. First, the last TLC recruiting class which CAM had very little choice but to accept has proven to be very poor shooters as a whole. Al is okay, but Justin is inconsistent at best. Second, CAM did recruit in HIS first recruiting class a very good shooter and a couple who were thought to be good shooters. No way anyone could have known what would happen to Jerome. Neither could anyone have foreseen how badly Rob’s shot would have been so affected especially by the concussion last year, and lingering injuries this year. DA was brought in as a developmental project, just like JF. One didn’t work out and the other is yet to be determined.

      Anyone who thinks CAM is not aware of the shooting talent deficiencies needs to look at what has been recruited for next year. Two of the three recruits are very good shooters and the third has shown significant range. I’ve been watching the two Indiana HS kids and their stats have looked pretty good against reasonably good competition. Recommend you and others do the same.

      Finally, we have a lot of naysayers who are quite frankly fluctuating between bouts of westlaffyitis and fair weather fandom. CAM needs to be given 2 Mulligans. The first being the roster he inherited from TLC didn’t fit CAM’s system at all in his first year at the helm. However, if you are trying to change the culture of a program you don’t wait until all the participants of the old system have departed. You start the system change day one whether you have to take your lumps and bruises or not.

      The second Mulligan CAM deserves is how badly his first recruiting class was decimated by injury. Even now, this class has not fully recovered from last year’s catastrophic amount of injuries. The heart and soul of that recruiting class over the long haul was Jerome, Race, and Rob. Romeo was the icing on the cake, but everyone knew he was a one and done. Of the 3 intended to have long term impact only Race seems to be back close to form.

      Truth be known, we are not going to be able to properly judge CAM’s success or failure for another 2 seasons. At that point, all 4 classes will be CAM recruits and we will know where we are going. Until that point we are going to have to let the process play itself out for better or worse. The best we can do is be supportive. The only thing which could make CAM’s job tougher, especially on the recruiting trail, would be the continual negative knee-jerk reactions for every bump IUBB hits in the road.

      . . . and just for the record . . . although I don’t follow them that closely. I haven’t forgotten the early wailing and gnashing of teeth over Coach Moren and bumps in the road she endured in the beginning. Look at where she has brought the program to now versus the naysayers then.

      1. Supporter of T. Moren the day she was hired and never one negative comment. She erased any doubts her first year At a ranked Minnesota team on the road for me when IU Ladies lost lead late in game. However, late in game trying to regain lead she tried to execute inside play against Minny that IU Ladies failed to execute rather than jacking up a 3. The play was there. IU Ladies failed to execute against a ranked Minnesota team. Then, she rode Cahill and Buss with others around them while growing the program…program is closer but not there yet. It’s been fun watching program grow and if you watch Ladies play you just really like them. T. Moren from very beginning stated it starts with defense. Though they make mistakes, IU Ladies challenge offenses in there stances with hands up and trying to make a steal.

        1. I’ll give you credit t,
          You have stayed consistent in your support of Moren. However, you should remember the sky is falling crowd back when Larryn Brooks left the program. If IUWBB had followed their lead, where would the program be now? Maybe CAM should be given the same support considering the mess he inherited. Let’s not forget Moren inherited a program on the rise under Miller, not in decline such as TLC.

  23. . . . and just for the record . . . although I don’t follow them that closely. I haven’t forgotten the early wailing and gnashing of teeth over Coach Moren and bumps in the road she endured in the beginning. Look at where she has brought the program to now versus the naysayers then.

    Frankly, I’m getting a bit tired of the so-called success on the Women’s side of things. Many who are likely the “naysayers” here are some of the same people who spent most of their time on men’s basketball threads gloating during the so-called successful Crean years (due to mostly to Zeller soft non-conference and favorable conference scheduling)…only to see inexplicable fizzling out of very highly ranked Hoosier teams in March Madness.
    March Madness separates the boys from the men…and the girls from the women. Time will tell how well Moren will fare in March Madness when the Hoosiers have to go outside the BigTen against some of real ‘elites’ in women’s college basketball. Nothing displays a coach’s ability to adjust, motivate and prepare like March Madness.
    Moren almost appeared as if we had wronged Tom Crean when he was fired…She wasn’t honest with herself or the fan base if that’s what she truly believed. Only look at ‘Conference Midwest Elite‘ to witness just how much the rest of the Midwest was excelling in March Madness compared to Indiana Men’s Basketball.
    Moren will be judged the same. The biggest stage in basketball is March Madness. It is the most challenging test for any coach.

    Lastly, does the Women’s BigTen have as many highly ranked teams as the Men’s BigTen? Are women’s teams from the Midwest as strong as men’s Midwest programs? Is the Women’s BigTen as successful in March Madness? I seem to remember the dominant teams in women’s hoops frequently being ND, UConn, Baylor…and Oregon.

    Thus, comparing Archie to Teri Moren is completely irrelevant. The Men’s BigTen in basketball is more akin to football in the SEC. The Women’s BigTen in basketball is probably more akin to how the BigTen in football stacks up to the truly powerful conferences. Feel free to disagree….

    No denying there is a faction here still disgruntled over the Crean dismissal. They take much of that dissatisfaction and use it to berate Archie Miller…and create more “success” for Teri Moren than she’s yet to achieve on the biggest stages of the game (the STANDARD we hold the men’s program).

  24. think, let’s say everyone making comments on this site agrees with you that Archie deserves two “mulligans” for the reasons you referenced. We should give Archie a pass and continue to blame IU Basketball’s mediocrity on Tom Crean’s recruits and acknowledge how all those injuries last season retarded the development of Archie’s first recruiting class. Assuming we do that, what does Archie’s first mulligan look like? Is it that he does not get fired after three seasons? O.K., I’ll agree to that. It doesn’t make any sense to fire Archie after three seasons, and it’s too expensive. The money would be better spent rewarding Coach Moren or spending it on IU Football. If Archie’s fourth season produces a record similar t his first three, what is Archie’s second mulligan? That he would get to keep his job after four mediocre seasons? Or does the second mulligan mean that Archie’s contract is extended? And if the second mulligan is that Archie gets his contract extended so that he will not go into his fifth season as a lame duck, how long does IU extend it? One year? Two years, or more?

    think, if you were IU’s incoming AD, knowing that your job depended primarily on the success of IU Men’s Basketball, how would you manage the situation with Archie? Would you hope for the best and let things play out through the two seasons remaining on Archie’s contract? Would you extend Archie’s contract before the start of his fifth season? Or would you fire Archie and bet your future on the man you selected to lead IU Basketball? Please be specific.

    1. Well let’s put it this way Po,
      You and Cali need to take a look at H4H’s post a few minutes ago, but let me give you one better. You asked the question from the AD’s perspective, so let me ask you this question. How do you think the fans at Ole Miss and So Call feel about the AD’s decisions to can Ed Orgeron? There was loud whining and crying from certain fan base segments in both cases thinking they could do better. Looks like the only one who could do better was Orgeron at a different location. Just in case you missed it, neither school has won a championship since firing him, just like IU hasn’t won one since firing RMK.

    1. think. Miller had IU Ladies pretty much depending solely on 3 pointers and soft defensively. IU Ladies were hardly on the rise when T.A. took over. Then, transfers and decommit (Jena Allen) upon T.Moren arrival on the run at beginning of season. I will agree that it is unknown what success Miller would have brought. Yes, there were naysayers other than me.
      H4h I favored T.C. coaching change. Yes, IU Ladies will need some March Madness success. At this point IU Ladies do have NIT success and a win over Texas in March Madness. This season IU Ladies do have a win on neutral court over South Carolina Ladies. Last I checked South Carolina Ladies are ranked number 1 in the country.

  25. Men’s Basketball rules the roost at IU…Because of that obvious fact …e.g. “It’s Indiana,” “Hoosier Rising” DVD and the 274,687 unsold “We’re Back” t-shirts donated to homeless shelters in California, …..Archie’s 3rd mulligan should be allowing him to select his own AD.
    We have a committee room precedent and it’s the right thing to do…Archie deserves (entitled via title as men’s head basketball coach) to the same minimal pressure to perform his March Madness duties as the last basketball coach.

    How do you build mediocrity? Answer: Way too much job security. For those already preparing and preaching of potential dire scenarios far from their timeline in pulling the trigger and job security away from Archie, please tell me where in the bejuses were you when it got to this or cue cards? Using cue cards and forgetting how to coach in clutch situations in March Madness are not “mulligans”….Those are examples of Job security syphilis. The current AD leaving is its final manifestation…

  26. Well, at one time Coach K was getting run out of town at Duke Blue Devils. The rest is history as one might say.

    1. t,
      You absolutely made the whole point in the best way possible!!! It took Coach K 4 years to get Duke beyond what CAM is doing at IU now, and several more before they got their first championship. Imagine if Duke had given up during his 3rd year the way some are giving up on CAM! Same thing can be said of several other coaches who struggled in their early years at a school. I suspect me, HC and a few others are old enough to remember very well many great coaches having to struggle when they were starting out at a school, and the naysayers said the same things about them that are being said about CAM now.

  27. Though I was ok with T.C. hiring I was getting critical of T.C. before IU loss to Syracuse in March Madness. I could see it coming because of the way T.C. Was coaching IU to play in second half of season. 1. No little jumper for Zeller after he worked hard with effort and basically tried to run over people. Vic dribble dribble dribble making excellent looking plays first half of season. However, after teams scouted IU, the same plays that worked first half of season didn’t work later in season and T.C. made know adjustments and failed to develop players and team. Then, a great big mistake was T.C. got rid of Matt Roth. Yes. I was done with T.C. Then, recruiting went out the window while traveling all over the northeastern part of the country. Yes, I was done with T.C.

    1. Hell, t, you get my vote for life by just posting the above. Many have still not come around to express the obvious. Thank you. And people here have the nerve to be talking of withholding extensions for Archie before the man has anything near his own team. It’s nuts.

  28. If Archie were to have cut every Crean recruit after his first season, how would he have been perceived/received? Would he have been given the same pass as cutting a Jordan Crawford? The same pass as not offering Matt Roth his final year of eligibility? The same pass as moving out Remy Abell? The same pass as sitting down for a farewell to Maurice Creek?

    Archie had absolutely zero choice but to keep the “keepers” who went to the finish line with Tom Crean. It’s so damn silly to think he had any choice. Even benching some of these privileged to play group via happenstance likely creates more grief for Archie than we can begin to realize. I’m telling you, folks, it’s like picking sides in divorce….This is what Archie is dealing with. He’s the new Hoosier daddy and “we”re not going to listen!”
    This wasn’t a normal coaching change by any means….This was a situation where the last coach was sold as a savior of the program. Crean was a master at building loyalty in his tight rosters and tight family. He was the keeper of their personal quest to play at the next level. He believed and recruited kids often off the radar of the big relevant names(coaching and programs).
    Crean’s dismissal almost created as much doubt, turmoil, dysfunction…and divisions in rosters, fans and ranks as the firing of “The General.” If you don’t see it…or believe it, you are either disingenuous , extremely naive, or without eyeballs. Throw in all the malarkey the man put on his twitter page and this is the result. Good luck walking on water, Archie. Most of this backlash has nothing to do with basketball.
    Archie is a very intelligent coach dealing with extreme division in roster and fan base. We shouldn’t sell this as easy..It truly trivializes his task and his genuine efforts.

  29. I really enjoy reading all the posts on this site. Thanks, everyone! (and I sincerely hope that everyone is realizing that I, THE ROCK, noted that “this team does not have anyone who can shoot the basketball”). I wrote that well prior to the Rutgers game.

    Regarding guys who can shoot in the HPER/SRSC…yes, they can, but they shuffle their feet PRIOR to shooting. It’s relatively easy to play basketball when you are allowed to travel, move your pivot foot, grab and hold on defense. That’s why we look good at home, and look so undeniably awful at away games.

    On to Nebraska! We laughed at them, too, when they entered the BIG 10.

  30. These next 3 games WILL dictate our tournament fate.

    @ NB (#161) ; can we win on the road?

    MSU (#10) ; can we continue to beat elite teams at home?

    MD (#17) ; can we beat a good team that waxed us at their place? Do the players have that can of whoopass in them?

  31. Let it be known that I’ve always said most of these guys are capable of shooting the ball. Much of this is mental (other than those with horrendous form who attempt to make miracle shots without shoulders squared).

    I believe Durham is the best shooter of the holdovers. Lefties are always natural…though it seems. Franklin and Hunter will get better. Phinisee is probably more important as a ‘probing’ and ‘penetration’ guy, but he’s not terrible shooting the ball.

    Haven’t seen enough of TJD to conclude much about his perimeter stroke, but there is nothing wrong with his free throw form.

    Brunk? Still suffering a stiff elbow release…but nothing like a Tom Pritchard. Joey’s turaround from just under the free throw line against Rutgers was actually quite impressive.

    Anderson’s form is too much wrist and too low. He’s probably a bust.
    Green is problematic in his lower body getting set (not preparing for the shot before ball is delivered..or the ball being delivered at the wrong timing) and not always getting shoulders square brings the inconsistency. Phinisee looks a bit too mechanical at times (youth and nerves). When Phinisee relaxes he’s pretty money.

    Justin Smith? I’m not sure. I think it’s still problems in the foot mechanics causing his shooting issues. Might also be stiff knees. His actual release is fine …and he doesn’t seem that uncomfortable at the stripe.

    Who am I missing? Doesn’t matter. Archie pinpointed a lot of the problem a couple weeks ago. A stellar point guard gets the ball delivered at the right time. Rhythm is everything. Getting the ball in rhythm is often not happening in our backcourt.

    And I don’t think we get anymore ‘home cooking’ calls at Assembly than the Green Bay Packers get at Lambeau…or the Badgers get at the Kohl Center.

    Bad shooting is just as infectious as lightning hot. Defenses and quickness in opposing guards play a bit of a role as well.

    Sure, we could use more ‘Woosh-tershire sauce‘ from someone like a Matt Roth…or a Zeisloft…or a Hulls. But when shooting hits this sort of bottom, it’s mostly mental (especially from the charity stripe).

    Mark this date down…so you can come back and rip me.

  32. think, I’m disappointed that you dodged my questions. As to responding to yours, Oregon’s record at Ole Miss was a disaster after three losing seasons, so I’m sure they have no regrets. As for USC, Oregon got promoted to Interim Head Coach four games into the season and went 6 – 2, but they got crushed by UCLA, and that is unforgivable at USC.

    I chuckle at how emotionally invested some of you guys are in Archie. I can’t wait to see how things go once all those toxic Crean recruits have left the program. They must be unique young men since Archie, given all his excellence, has been unable to influence their performance over three seasons. Funny, but I don’t remember anyone complaining about Juwan Morgan last season.

    1. Sink or swim, I’d rather be overly invested in a basketball coach who stresses defense… and keeps it honest in his press conferences. But that’s just me…I tend to run from frauds and guys who are mainly in it for their own resume and the NBA “upside” of college ball.

      Nothing is easy at Indiana. We had the gold standard in coaching genius. It’s hard to replicate.

    2. . . . and Po,
      You just very artfully dodged my answer of a question with a question. Yes, AD’s make decisions under fan pressure all the time with varying results. However, once in a while those decisions come back to bite them big time.

  33. And for every single marksman of old listed (Roth, Hulls, Zeisloft) came some pretty slow feet and poor defense. And VCU ate Hulls up when he tried to bring up the ball. Syracuse’s length and quickness ate him up as well.

    Finding guys who can play at pace, not get gassed, exert big effort defending and still have something left in the tank to not tighten up on a jumper…? Sounds easy….But I still think it’s going to improve as we head down the stretch. When other teams are fading down the stretch, our depth will help in avoiding the season-long fatigue department. We’ll be finding more rhythm while other teams are running out of fuel …and getting their own share of injuries.

  34. Did any of you guys catch Don Fischer interviewing Cooper Bybee on the last coach’s show? That kid was marvelous….and had such a great sense of humor. His self-deprecating humor was a delight. Makes me happy we have a ‘behind the scenes’ walk-on with that sort of character. I’m sure he’s not alone in that department.
    Gives me hope….It’s always the guys throwing up their guts for the jersey with no fanfare who make the difference in the direction of a program.

    Played for two seasons for Mike Burris at Olney Central College… earned Academic All-American honors… averaged 7.1 points as a sophomore and 6.0 points as a freshman…made all 21 of his free throw attempts as a sophomore… shot 41.9% from three-point range… received the Great Rivers Athletic Conference Sportsmanship Award.

    A 2017 graduate of Edgewood High School… became just the fifth player in school history to eclipsed the 1,000-point mark in a career… averaged 23.8 points as a senior and 14.8 ppg., as a sophomore… was an HBCA All-Star… once scored a school-record 48 points against Eastern Greene and had nine triples against Terre Haute South

    Nine triples….? Um…Archie? What do we have to lose?

  36. That kid keeping perspective for himself being thankful to just be a member of team and IU student. Not only happiest kid on team but one of the happiest on campus taking in and enjoying college.
    Any really successful teams need very good players at their respective positions who can shoot the ball. Not shooting the ball well is a symptom of not being a really good player. That doesn’t mean necessarily a big scorer (sometimes a player takes very few shots) and still is a really good player. However, a really good player when he does shoot the ball or tries to score it equals a good to high percentage successful play as in a bucket scored, 3 point play, bucket scored plus ft. Of course all this is set up by confidence and playing defense, passing, effective meaningful dribble, rebounding, teamwork play etc. It is actually the end result of efficiency and effectively playing the game.

  37. think, I just re-read your post and don’t see any additional questions that I failed to answer. You asked, “How do you think the fans at Ole Miss and So Cal feel about the AD’s decisions to can Ed Orgeron?” I answered that question. What else do you want me to address?

    But on the issue of schools like Ole Miss, USC, etc. firing football coaches that don’t meet their high expectations, allow me to point out that those schools, due to the wealth they accumulate from football, have the luxury of buying out the contracts of coaches that don’t meet their expectations. Those schools have surpluses of cash, generated by their Football programs, that make the severance cost of a fired coach look like pocket change. For such schools, the cost of not firing a coach, especially losing Football coaches, can be far greater. Not only would it would jeopardize the job security of the AD and/or the President of the University, but it annoys the big dollar donors. Given that IU’s Athletic Department does not have a large cash surplus, in relative terms, it’s a much bigger deal for IU to buy out the contract of a coach that fails to meet expectations.

  38. Po,
    Let’s just say being the AD who didn’t retain Orgeron long enough for him to build a winner are not so good. It doesn’t look so good to have the guy you fired go elsewhere and build arguably one of the greatest D1 champs in history. No LSU fan, but the gauntlet they went through this year while remaining unbeaten, very few teams have been able to achieve. Knocking off 7 top ten teams including preseason 1-4 is no small feat. This is why I say the optics don’t looks so hot, and maybe a couple schools were a little quick on the trigger.

    Being in SEC country, I happen to know a few of the Ole Miss faithful, and they have been quite nauseated most of the year. If not for the Kiffin hire to distract them, would be a long time to “think about it” until next season.

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