Hoosiers fall at Maryland, 75-59

Indiana’s start to the conference-only portion of its slate got off to a rough start in a 75-59 loss at No. 15 Maryland.

Devonte Green led the Hoosiers with 18 points, but no other Hoosier finished in double figures scoring. Joey Brunk added nine points and 10 rebounds.

IU falls to 11-3 (1-2 Big Ten) and created plenty of concerns about where this season is headed.

An ugly, ugly offense

A full-court heave on an inbounds pass by Brunk sailed over his Hoosiers teammates — out of bounds on the other end — and a miserable first half offensively had met its end. 

It was a miserable day, generally, as IU hit just 22-of-61 (36.1 percent) from the floor and 4-of-18 from the 3-point line.

Every fear about the Hoosiers’ limitations were realized in College Park. Heading into the locker room, IU was just 7-of-21 on its 2-point shots, while the Hoosiers successfully hit just one of seven from beyond the arc.

There was no bailout to be had at the free throw line, either, where the visitors shot just 3-of-6 in the first 20 minutes.

Early on, the Hoosiers were conscious to work the ball inside to Brunk, who started with a quick five points. But they weren’t able to consistently exploit their size advantage. Trayce Jackson-Davis’ only first-half contribution was a couple of blocks on a single Maryland possession, running the floor for his lone bucket.

The 6-foot-9 forward was also tied to the bench for the final five-plus minutes after picking up two quick fouls. Maryland (12-2, 2-1) finished the half on a 17-4 run, even with a 30-percent shooting effort, including 4-of-15 from the 3-point line.

It was a 28-20 deficit going into the final 20 minutes, but even that seemed like a steep climb considering how the Hoosiers’ offense was functioning. They went into the half hitting one of their final 13 shots.

Maryland’s second chances

In the second half, the Hoosiers were sparked by working the offensive glass. Finally, IU’s size advantage started to pay dividends.

Pulling down five offensive rebounds in the first seven minutes, the Hoosiers produced seven second-chance points in that span and cut the deficit to 38-33.

But the Hoosiers gave the Terrapins plenty of second chances in return. For instance, a lazy pass by Race Thompson off of a rebound went unattended, turning into two 3-point tries for Anthony Cowan Jr. He sank the second.

A second-chance lay-in by Jalen Smith was followed by a steal on the other end by Donta Scott, which was deposited for a hard transition slam to keep an 11-0 run rolling along. That made it 57-38 with 6:27 remaining in the game.

On the day, the Hoosiers had 14 turnovers, compared to just seven for the Terps. Empty possessions and second chances IU gifted Maryland made a climb out of a first-half hole all the more impossible.

Maryland finished with a 25-9 advantage in points off of turnovers.

Green’s struggles continue

While he ended up being the Hoosiers’ leading scorer, 16 of Green’s 18 points came in the final 3:26 — when the Hoosiers were already down 30 points.

IU came into the year hoping Green would be able to tap into his offensive potential more regularly. In a game where the Hoosiers failed to put the ball in the bucket, the senior guard was one of the worst offenders, at least for a majority of the game.

Green was 2-of-9 to start the contest, including 1-of-5 from beyond the arc. He finished the day 6-of-13 from the floor and 3-of-7 from deep, which is encouraging. He’d hit 32 percent or less in three of his last four games.

Unfortunately, it was too little, too late.

The Hoosiers not only need to find better ways to score on the inside. They need a counter from the outside, and Green needs to provide that early and often for IU to be able to compete.

68 comments

  1. Glad we got the article posted to allow for a clean thread to post to.

    Had a chance to watch the game and it is impossible to miss the obvious about this team and last year’s team – they can’t shoot from distance consistently. That includes the 3’s and FT’s. They do a lot of fundamentally sound things but after a while as the team wears out trying to stay in the game everything breaks down. Not being able to shoot is like having the finest vehicle with all the greatest features, but no engine.

    It is very obvious CAM knows this by the way he is recruiting. Of the 3 recruits for 20-21, 2 are shooters of some repute and the 3rd is developing. With this year’s class AF was brought as a shooter but has yet to develop consistency in his first season. In CAM’s first class of his own, JH was a known shooter, but the leg situation has taken it’s toll. DA and RP were thought to be somewhat capable, but RP’s injuries and DA’s slow development have hindered their effectiveness.

    The real problem which H4H has harped on for years now is the TLC recruiting classes which CAM must endure. The 4 upperclassmen on the team are all inconsistent at best, and the shooters are questionable. I think things went downhill on the TLC recruiting in his last years far worse than imagined. Yes, there was some nba talent, but no underlying 3-4 year players of any consequence which is becoming very evident. Unless you can recruit at the Duke/KY level, you can’t build a long term winning program to compete at the B1G level with the TLC strategy.

    CAM is trying to build it the right way, but if we all let emotion instead of logic rule, CAM may run out of time before he can transition IUBB away from the TLC mess.

  2. Combining terrible shooting with ridiculous turnovers is a formula for another embarrassing loss. Today, IU’s performance was terrible, and I see no light at the end of the Big Ten tunnel. If something doesn’t change in a hurry, IU will be lucky to finish the season with 19 wins.

    It is not unreasonable to suggest that IU’s incoming Athletic Director may have a huge issue to address in his/her first year on the job. I don’t care how loyal you are to Archie’s coaching style, philosophy, or public persona, today’s embarrassing performance is strong evidence that IU BB is not on the right trajectory. And I don’t see how next year’s three incoming freshman are going to improve things very much.

    The sky may not be falling, but after two Big Ten debacles, the Hoosier Nation’s confidence in Archie’s ability to return IU to elite status must be beginning to erode. College BB coaches don’t get paid $3.5 million per year to sustain mediocrity.

  3. Think..I am reminded what was said about Indiana’s offense at the half-time studio..Steve Lavin referred IU’s shots “as UFO’s” After This debacle of what some might call “a basketball game” , what are chances of recruiting Trey Kaufman and Kristian Lander BOTH being recruited by Louisville as well .That school is right across the river from their homes. They were present at the Arkansas game and if they watched this game ..IM not sure I would want to be “attached” to this “game play”

  4. REVENGE OF CREAN…..In theaters now! A horrifying tale of cue cards from outer space melting into a grotesque growing blob where nothing shall be left in its path!

  5. Last year’s team had two players Morgan and Romeo Langford currently on NBA rosters and McRoberts even with a bad back, provided more leadership and talent than what’s on the current I U roster. I U doesn’t have a go to player or players this year that compare with Morgan and Langford and good on court awareness that McRoberts had. It’s going to be a long season for I U Men’s Basketball with the current lack of being able to execute the plays of getting inside on a consistent basis.

    1. Wrong! Trayce is IU’s go to player however 1) he is a Big and thus needs a guard to feed him or to feed Joey or Justin to feed him; 2) he needs to shoot the 7-21’ shots now, and the 3’s (so what if he only hits 25% that is our team average); 3) he must be on the floor 30 minutes per game or on the bench with 5 fouls!

  6. think, it’s getting harder and harder to shield Archie from responsibility by using Crean’s recruits as an excuse. We can all agree that Crean’s last recruiting class did not include any great players, but Archie is in his third year coaching these guys and they’re not showing any signs of improvement. Your comments suggest that Crean’s recruits were fundamentally defective finished products when they arrived in Bloomington and that no coach could improve their skills. And with the exception of TJD, none of Archie’s recruits are doing any better! It’s not unreasonable to think that a coaching staff should be able to help their players improve key skills, like shooting free throws, improving one’s passing ability, and yes, improving their ability to make 3-point shots. But these guys are not getting any better. Whatever Archie has tired to do to improve Crean’s recruits, it isn’t working. And that’s on Archie and is staff.

    1. Archie should have cut them instead of trying to improve them….like the ruthless Tommy always did with his expendables victims of scholly crunch habits and shotgun recruiting.

      Archie was loyal to a fault. Some dysfunctional players couldn’t be improved over a 10-year span. Some nearly sabotage the game of basketball.

      1. Perhaps, but Archie was hired to serve chicken salad and lemonade, even though the guy who did some of the grocery shopping brought home the unrefined versions of those end products. People can keep ripping Crean, but that’s shortsighted and not in any way indicative of knowledgeable basketball commentary 2 1/2 years into Miller’s time as coach. It’s his team and has been for awhile. Blaming anyone else for his failure to build and improve the program is misplaced and ignorant.

        1. “Blaming anyone else for his failure to build and improve the program is misplaced and ignorant,” said Kelvin Sampson.

          Ignorant, indeed. As in chasing Jeff Meyer for “wrecking” IU Basketball while four years and 12 million dollars into a coaching contract.
          Guilty as charged in looking for excuses in support of Archie even in his humble failings quested upon keeping it about basketball.

          The difference? Archie, unlike Crean, is not seeking excuses (nor throwing mud at any predecessor to blame) and that is the greatest commentary on basketball restored at McCracken (win or lose).
          And only an ignorant portion of a fan base would allow to be condescended upon in the manner Archie’s predecessor did from his perch and podium on a daily basis.

          1. The one making excuses is you. I get that you want to lay everything at Crean’s feet, but that’s ignorant at this point in the conversation. And aren’t you the guy who made up a story about Crean being responsible for Glass’s hiring? That was simply a lie and emblematic of ignorant bias. I never cared for Crean, but Archie needs to stand on his own now. Nothing you’re babbling about changes that.

          2. And I’m not afraid to make plenty of commentary where I believe Archie is showing weaknesses as a coach….But until he has a team primarily made up of his own recruits, there is a good amount of leeway that must come within that critique.

            Lastly, Archie Miller was never my first choice. He’s an upgrade from cue cards. Somehow I wasn’t consulted in the process. (that’s a joke just in case you may think that I’m so detached from reality to think whatever anyone says on here means a hill of brilliant beans). I wanted someone even lower down the rung of the “Who’s Who” in college coaching. I liked Bill Coen….He’s a nobody like me. He would have come a lot cheaper…..He would have been stunned and elated to even be considered. He had no homie ties to Indiana. I didn’t want a former “Indiana guy.” And I highly doubt we would be any worse off.
            Those who should be extra critical of Archie are those who highly advocated bringing him to IU. Podunker is doing a pretty fine job of ripping into his own choice. No reason for me ruin his fun.

      1. ^^^Accurate …other than cut them. Archie has honored their scholarships because he didn’t have the heart to push otherwise decent kids off a team. Tough balancing act when you’re a new coach dealing with kids who were Hoosiers before you came along.

  7. I U South….opponents will Zone this team to death or run a “match up zone” of some type but the Man to man defenses will disappear as long as IU cant break the 20% barrier of the 3 pt line.

  8. I think if Ohio State comes in and hands IU an embarrassing loss ..The heat on Archie’s chair will get much hotter..and if they don’t make NCAA tourney ,,I think hes gone either fired or resign.

  9. Kaufman attends Silver Creek High School that is located in Sellersburg In and is in Clark County Indiana, and Clark County is located on the Ohio River across from Louisville. Lander attends an Evansville, Indiana, which is down river from Louisville by an approx. 100 miles

  10. I listened to IU’s 1953 national championship win on radio with my dad. I understand everyone’s frustration, the desire to win the right way. Unfortunately that bus left the station in the early 90’s. Today, IU’s basketball’s influence is as relevant as Amos Alonzo Stagg’s dominance in the Big 9 at the University of Chicago. Crean was an overrated blowhard and Sampson out of control. IU’s new AD better sit down with some real insiders, select someone that can instantly recruit, put a top staff together, win and play by the rules and pay them! You’re already blowing nearly 4 million with this guy and it’s obvious he’s overmatched. The choice is that or your kids and grandkids on this same page with the same disappointments. You’re welcome.

    1. Intriguing comments Brad,

      However, exactly how many banners have these supposed individuals “that can instantly recruit, put a top staff together, win and play by the rules,” won in the last 20 years? Just in case you want to know, the answer is zero. Every program which has hung a banner in the 21st century took years to develop and in many cases after some very dismal early years of the coaching regime. That is, unless it was an already well established program not needing to be rebuilt such as IUBB after the TLC years.

      They just named Villanova Coach Jay Wright as “Coach of the Decade.” Take a look at his early years at Villanova, not much to talk about, a somewhat similar situation to what Archie inherited. He didn’t do any better than Archie has until his 4th season at Villanova. Take a look at how long it took him to hang his first banner. I see a lot of coaches out there who bring a lot of hype and sizzle, but they are not hanging any banners. Nice to have a winning program, but if you don’t hang any banners, what have you accomplished? Looks good on the resume, may put a bunch of players into the nba, may build a nice arena, but where are the championships?

      1. Calipari for one. Secondly, AM couldn’t carry Wright’s jock. Would you like Brad Stevens or Holtman? I would.
        Don’t recall IU beating theur door down before blowing town. I don’t know about national championships in a short period of time, but this program is 3 years in and it’s not even on the radar. Give me break!

        1. Brad,
          Who do you think I was talking about when I said, “unless it was an already well established program not needing to be rebuilt such as IUBB after the TLC years.” I was alluding specifically to Calipari. Take a look at the KY records in the 20 years prior to Calipari and then look at IU. Other than Pitino’s mulligan first year, KY had only 1 season with less than 20 wins. IU on the other hand had 8 seasons. Some of those seasons were total wipe outs. The worst season KY had was the one season with 18 wins. Don’t think Calipari had anywhere near the rebuild that CAM has faced.

          As for the westlaffy comment about Wright versus Miller, don’t think that the Villanova crowd thought that 3 years into Wright’s tenure.

  11. Hunter was on the court……….

    Reminder – Preseason we were picked 9th in big ten and not going to the dance. We are playing par. Some teams are playing much better than projected, so far. Let’s wait and see.

  12. HC, then why is Green a captain and regular starter on this team? Archie’s the boss. If Green’s performance can’t be improved, if he’s “unfixable,” (and I don’t disagree Green is a problem), why is Archie playing him? He’s recruited two guards since arriving in Bloomington. Why aren’t they getting the majority of the minutes?

    1. Po, that’s it, you can’t get all you want in 2-3 recruiting classes when there were so many needs from the unbalanced roster left to him. I’m fine with where we’re at with Coach Miller’s roster management. 2 guards? I count 4 signed LOI. He kept the commitment of AD so he is AM’s. Romeo is a G by the way. Pay particular attention you’ll catch on.

  13. Bottom line: this IU team is a terrible offensive team. They can’t make shots and our bigs are not effective scoring in the paint (22 points to MD’s 34 points). Today we made 36% of our FG attempts, 61% of our FT attempts and only 22% of our 3-point attempts. That has to be close to worst offensive performance in IU history and must rank IU near the bottom of all D-1 teams in the nation.

    If you can’t recruit players who can score, and you can’t improve your players’ shooting skills, it doesn’t matter how hard your team plays defense.

    1. I know Po,
      I watched the entire game, and the glaring fact keeps jumping out, these kids can’t shoot consistently from distance. If you can’t shoot from outside, it is easy for the defense to pack it in and contest every shot in the paint. Which is exactly what we saw Maryland do. Archie has a major problem, surviving long enough to get enough good shooters to turn this around. Sad thing is if the Villanova fan base had been as impatient in Jay Wright’s 3rd year at Villanova as Hoosier Nation is with Archie, look at what would have been missed!

  14. How it’s forgotten in one season “all those injuries and no team had as many injuries as the Hoosier basketball team.

  15. We’ve still barely begun the BigTen season. Let’s please stop saying Archie has had three seasons to get this right. This season is far from over….
    And he should get one mulligan…Hell, every new coach is going to get a pass on his first season.

    1. In fact I give him 2 mulligans. His 1st and considering all the lost practice and game time with the train load of injuries last season. Just ending in the last 30 days was a stretch of 60 games with at least 1 scholarship player unable to practice and not able to play a game. Crippling to improvement, development and chemistry. More like devastating.

  16. Take a look at the Butler Bulldogs, the school had their coach recruited away by Ohio State, recruits decommitted, some players left the school via transfers, bring in a young unknown coach the same year AM was hired by I U. Butler doesn’t have the facilities, big school campus, no Big Ten money, or big booster donations like I U. Ask yourself a question which program has the most competitive team, Butler or IU?

  17. think, Jay Wright’s first Villanova team went 19 – 13. Then he went 15 – 16 and 18 – 17 before going 24 – 8 and making it to the Sweet 16 in his fourth season at Villanova. IU is not going to fire Archie after this season no matter how bad it turns out; Glass won’t do it on his way out and the new AD won’t spend the money to buy out the last two years of his contract. But I’m not seeing how next year’s three freshman are going to elevate IU to a record of 24 – 8 or help IU get to the Sweet 16. Archie’s top rated recruit, Anthony Leal, is the 98th ranked player in the class of 2020. And Archie didn’t sign another big in this class.

    A fan base can tolerate three bad seasons as long as they see that help in on the way. But I don’t think IU fans see that enough help is coming to make a significant difference. And I’ll bet that most IU fans don’t expect TJD to stay at IU beyond his sophomore season. And Brunk will be gone after next season too. Not a lot of reason to be optimistic that Archie’s fourth season at IU is going to mirror Jay Wright’s fourth season at Villanova.

    1. The programs at Villanova and IU are further apart than Philly is to Bloomington. Comparing Wright to Miller is like comparing AJ Foyt to the winner of the 2nd sprint feature at the Indianapolis Speedrome on a Friday night.

  18. I watched the game and Archie is in a hole that he can’t dig out from. That was a horrible display. Archie is not going to be fired but if he cannot recruit multiple high level talents, in two more years he should be. As I mentioned after the Arkansas game, the ONLY player they have is TJD. Every other player has serious limitations. A guard like Cowan makes Phinisee, Durham, Green and Franklin look like they should be playing at a lower level. Thompson is overmatched. Smith is a mistake waiting to happen and Davis plays like he is wearing cement shoes and boxing gloves. Brunk is a good minutes guy and Hunter looks slow and confused. IU will still win some more games this year but no one can feel good about the basketball program!

      1. Front line guys might as well be architectural pillars of antebellum homes without exceptional guard play (especially at the point).

        Beat Purdue is pretty correct. Though Justin Smith is still tuning and adjustin’ ..and Joey Brunk(ie) is still a bit clunky…and our young 5-star Trayce is sometimes out of place, all three could combine into an All-American front line with exceptional guard play.

        Even DeRon couldn’t find enough rims to hang on…and a substituted Race could be more than just another 6-8 pretty face.

        Our guard play in architecture….

  19. “Al” Durham played today. That’s a disgrace. Archie said he was going to “look at the tape” and decide. He made the wrong decision, in my opinion.

    On the radio, Don Fischer labeled our team “inept.”

    Regarding oldster Brad’s excellent memories of 1953…..I was in Buffaloouie’s watching the game and as it slipped away I mentioned to a college-aged person watching the nearby “it’s going to be a long Big Ten Season.”

    He said, “Yeah, when we were up 5 early I was excited, but then I remembered, ‘This is Indiana’…..”

    He meant that he was not confident that we could have held onto that lead.

    I think we can beat Northwestern, and then I think an extended losing streak is coming up.

    N.I.T.

    1. Rock: Nice take. I may have just turned 70 but ended the golf season with a 4 handicap. Not ready for the rest home just yet.

      As an added thought: The only time IU or the Pacers for that matter won national or ABA (finals NBA) championships were when they had dominate big men that would patrol the paint and rebound: Schlundt, Bellamy (probation 5 years) Benson, Turner, Tolbert, Daniels and the Davis boys. I don’t know what’s more frustrating, IU’s inability to recruit or the Pacers refusal to fill the position?
      Myles Turner thinks he’s a small forward and Sabonis isn’t a big enforcer but at least gives them something in the middle. Worst rebounding team in NBA. IU likely isn’t much better. I’ve yet to see a team win consistantly without a presence in the paint. Everything revolves around it. Just think Lew Alcindor, Bill Walton and Bill Russell.

  20. Wish Archie would have gone after someone like Mac McClung (unheralded 3-star not recruited by any decent program other than Georgetown).

    We needed a baller with a chip on the shoulder rather than prima donnas soft as a Snuggles teddy bear.

    Not seeing a lot of heart from recent Indiana recruits….(other than the grad transfer, Joey Brunk, via Butler). I’m beginning to think most are groomed soft since the destruction of our single high school basketball tournament.

    Recruiting Indiana isn’t what it used to be….Those who are considered top recruits are not tested tried-and-true anymore. They are blue ribbon recipients given easier pathways to trophies and accolades. Social media and saturation by rankings services pump their egos of untested worth higher.
    Are some still quite talented? Yes. Team-oriented and gritty? Not so much.

    Bob Knight was beginning to feel the early effects in his own recruiting almost 20 years ago. The “me first” is ruling the college landscape. Thank the destruction of our unique h.s. tournament abandoned long ago on the home turf and the influences of the NBA(one-and-done) and insane dollars always pulling from outside the sphere.

    Georgetown had a better team last year, but they still remain my guilty pleasure. I simply love Patrick Ewing as a coach. Love the way his team plays hard and respects him.
    Watch out for Seton Hall as well, Nova lovers. Actually, that entire conference is much stronger this season. Butler will have their work cut out for them.

  21. I guess that’s my ‘Word for the Day’…..RESPECT. I don’t see Archie commanding much respect from his players. He’s not a hard-fisted sort of coach and I don’t see that as necessary to respect. But there is something not right…and from my distant vantage point (could be a very misconstrued and misinterpreted point) I’m not seeing the chemistry and love between father(coach) and his adopted sons (players). No chemistry. No eyes absorbing every coaching utterance as if vital. It doesn’t look like the same family between the men in suits and the young men in uniforms.
    If a coach can’t foster and find RESPECT (and it’s a two-way street so I’m not saying it’s simply on the players), then the battle is lost before the ball is tipped off.

    Word of the Day: RESPECT. Sock it to me….Sock it to me….Sock it to me…Rock it to me….Sock it to me.

  22. HfH: Nice touch of reality and intropspection. The AAU thing has gotten out of control. My buddy and I, when assessing some of these ‘top recruits’ ahhhhhh cough cough,….both agreed that one in particular was a ‘stiff’ and would get eaten alive down low against seasoned teams. Unfortunately he and I were right again.

    1. Brad,
      You and me will certainly agree when it comes to your AAU comment. I think AAU basketball is doing as much damage to the game as is the nba from the other direction.

  23. We’re 0-1 in a stretch where I thought 5-3 would be a success. So, we have to go 5-2 now. It takes 40 min. on game day to see reality.

    MD is very talented & led by what could be a 2nd or 3rd team All-American PG. He’s simply far better than our rotation of 4 guards. Jalen Smith was good today as were their 2 forwards. They are simply better than we are & I think they’ll be a Top 4 Big Ten tourney seed and NCAA seed.

    To recap our ‘body of work’, we’ve beaten UConn & ND on neutral courts. And FSU on our home court where we also lost to Arkansas. I don’t dwell on road losses nor home wins in the Big Ten, unless it is against a Top 10 NET rated team. Young teams normally get devoured in this league on the road. We are young & play a lot of FR & SO (Archie’s recruits).

  24. The long droughts this team goes through is maddening.

    In the last 9:32 in the 1H we scored 4 pts. In a 7 min stretch in the 2H we scored 3. That’s ~ 16:30 with 7 pts.!!! That means in the other 23:30 we scored 52, over 2 pts/min !!! That is a 90 pt/game pace.

    The results were similar in the ND & ARK games. Long lapses in offense & very short bursts of brilliance.

    Given the lack of offensive consistency, I think I’d do a lot more pressing & make it a full court game vs. half court game. We can’t shoot nor feed the post, so why not use the 11 guys we play to force the pace??? We seem to have the speed & athleticism & depth to play 92 ft for 40 min.

    Note that when we look good it is directly correlated to transition buckets off of steals, blocks or rebounds. A large % of TJ-D’s pts come from him running the floor.

    Dear Archie, force the pace!

    1. Maybe he doesn’t want to run the gazelles too soon…..and too hard? Long season and the wear and tear of this league will take its toll. Stay injury-free. Keep the bench healthy. Do your damnedest to win at home and steal a couple on the road.
      Try to get in as a lower seed or bubble team….and then turn the gazelles loose. Maybe somewhat of a new star will emerge by late February or March?
      This team has talent. I know some of these guys can shoot the ball. It’s confidence and chemistry. It’s comfort level and accepting roles. It could all come together just when all are ready to abandon ship. Basketball is a screwy game in a very lovely way.
      One spark and suddenly there is belief.
      Our depth is the mishmosh yet to be figured out….I still believe this team can get to the Big Dance.

  25. I shall conclude my comments on this thread with the following:

    The BigTen season is young. The time is still early. Here’s to hoping ‘AM’ will get this team going by ‘PM‘.

  26. team mates may have voted Green Captain but Archie needs to take it away until HIS game improves. Talking about injuries; I don’t believe D Davis has ever gotten over his Achilles tear(physically maybe; mentally no) AND I wonder about the long term health of Hunter( last game on bench with “thigh bruise”) this game only played 3 minutes. Justin Smith is never going to be any kind of a shooter..he is an athlete and probably got by in high school jumping higher than anyone, that’s why he disappears in games. Brad you also nailed it with the AAU being out of control ..but then again it is reflected here in statements saying “Archie needs to recruit 4 and 5 star players” Who in the hell PUTS the Stars on these kids?? NBA so they can get to the faster? Agents so they can make more money off them. I have yet to see a 4 star or 5 star “recruit” this year able to shoot from distance with ANY consistency. They get “stars” for being Tall, arm “wing span”, ball handling.. hell even those listed as “Shooting guard” cant shoot for crap. Forget the “stars” ; give me a kid that can put the ball thru a netless rim attached to side of a barn ,while the wind blows 10-12 mph. and standing in a dirt court..There’s your baller, there’s your shooter

    1. Great thoughts TJ!! I grew up with some of those barnyard masters of the shots you described.

      Because he nailed the real problems so well, I’m going to give H4H major kudos. Well said Harv!!
      I have long thought the loss of a single class tournament would come back to haunt Indiana basketball quality. I also believe AAU basketball is not just creating a very detrimental mindset to basketball, but is also wearing out those young bodies well before their time.

      As for the pure shooters we all crave so much, I think help is on the way. Recommend everyone keep track of the stats for the incoming 2020 recruiting class. Leal is scorching the nets, especially from the 3 point line. Haven’t been able to see as much on Galloway and Geronimo, but what I have read is both can shoot, especially Galloway.

      What this tells us is Archie knows where is problem is at, but it takes time to bring in quality shooters who also fit his system. I think the 2020 class may well be the most prototypical CAM class we have seen thus far. Not the high flying one and done’s, but guys who are ballers to the core and will be solid 4 year players. The kind of players needed to hang banners.

  27. Agree…Very spot-on comments from TJ in Texas.

    Bottom Line:
    a) No longer a statewide single/one class basketball tournament.
    b) AAU ball creates too much glorification/adulation and brings kids already less team developed and team tested to college with narcissistic attitudes.
    c) “Stars” and rankings don’t align with team skills, b-ball IQ and shooting with consistency accuracy. The formulas are based on….(here it comes…Crean’s favorite descriptor) “UPSIDE.” Translation: “Upside” means the highly athletic recruit will finally play smart team basketball with consistency just in time to say goodbye to college as an NBA “upside” prospect.
    d) Highly touted recruits arrive with all the above muddying the thoughts and priorities. They arrive at college now basically only serving as their own audition stage for the NBA rather than having a true hunger to represent the colors of the school. There are fewer and fewer Ralph Sampson types….
    e) Established programs getting deep in tournaments simply based on a plethora of the misguided “superstars” play a far less fluid game of basketball but the talent disparity still gives them an advantage
    d) The game deteriorates decade by decade because the unsung or the “specialty” type of player(e.g. the marksman…or the ‘super sub’ …or the heart and soul of a team willing to play within their talent/role) are put so far to the back of the bus as to steal what it means to build a team of cohesive but unequal parts. If you don’t have NBA prospect stamped on your college passport, you are a second class citizen. Or, you’re minimized/trivialized for being “only a shooter.”

    I asked to bring Virgil Sweet into this program as a teacher 10 years ago. He could have fixed some of these free throw issues. More importantly, he would have brought a maturity and example of what unselfish basketball and team play means. Making free throws is about as simple a “team” thing as it gets. There is no higher level of disrespect to your team than to completely suck at the charity stripe. You have flippantly declared one of the simplest forms to add a “winning” advantage as irrelevant. Why is it irrelevant? Because the NBA will overlook poor free throw shooting when you can still jump through the rafters.

    Mac McClung….Grit and heart defined. You’ll see Mac McClung at a Final Four before his college career has ended. I guarantee it.

  28. Green as team captain. Is it that hard to figure out? Of course the guy on the roster with bloodlines in the NBA is voted the team captain. He’s the senior. He’s the big man on campus. He has family in the NBA…He’s handsome. He’s got swag…He’s flashy and quick. Does it matter he’s a train wreck with the ball and for every flashy play makes an opposing complete brain fart? Nope. NBA bloodlines is more important. Why did we ever recruit Jeremiah Rivers? Same reason. Favors to the NBA bloodlines. Nepotism, coaching connections, future favors, etc, etc, etc.
    Jeremiah Rivers couldn’t hit the side of a double-wide barn. Green might as well be dribbling off his toes because flashy mistakes are just as costly as missing the side of a double-wide barn on a jump shot.

  29. Devonte should be referred to as “Green Light”….because no matter what boneheaded thing he does on the basketball court, Archie will forever give him the green light to keep on doing things out-of-control and not smart; ‘Green Light’ to run a red light.
    Lord, what I’d give for a “Keith Smart” light. Maybe we should put in a call on our “Smart Phone?”

  30. I want to take a step back in the “Cooling off” process. Archie has 3 freshmen learning his system, Joey Brunk while a transfer and has a better understanding of college ball still learning system. Jerome Hunter, usually surgery to correct traumatic injuries can restore function100%; Jerome’s problem is a medical condition that required surgery to correct; and while everyone says he’s 100% to go and full practice..Im gonna offer a thought..MOST medical conditions are never corrected to the “before status AND that medical condition still exists I don’t think Jerome will eve be the player he was in highschool and the player that was recruited. There’s 5 of the players on team. Of the CTC recruits, DDavis was mentioned earlier( I don’t think he will be what he was before Achilles injury (mentally or physically) Justin Smith is athlete that got by in high School on his size and jumping ability but can’t shoot his way out of a paper sack Al Durham IS at his best 2-3 star recruit. He’s a combo guard that has difficulty finding consistency in either point guard role or “shooting” guard. then there is Devonte…all you can say about him is in 2 words “Hero Ball”. When he goes into that mode all others stand and watch. Damezi could be helpful bench player but he has to learn not to “offer” the ball out in front , when they recruited him the eval was he started his shot WAY TOO low. IM for allowing Archie to get HIS players in here. Some problems he has are the ones recruited by Crean; some are the misfortunes of health issues ( its easy to recover from injury or medical issues IF they don’t involve the legs. Both players have Leg “issues”. I think the blend of CTC recruits “shortcomings ” and players still learning “Archie ball” are issues that cant be “cured” until CTC truly leaves the building..and a definitive eval of Jerome’s health is ascertained.

    1. ^^^ Well assessed.

      College basketball is a guard’s game. To be “elite”, a team needs a Wooden All-AMERICAN candidate PG.

      Winston (MSU)
      Simpson (MI)
      Cowan (MD)
      ….I think those are the top 3 in the Big Ten. What do they have in common? They’re all SENIORS.

      Let’s assess what guards we do have;
      Durham (JR), can’t shoot but is improving, can only drive & shoot 6 ft lay-ups

      Phinisee (SO), a better stroke, decent floor general & defender; seems to be finding his way back

      Franklin (FR), even better stroke, will be the eventual true PG & leader at IU; has been a complete liability since ND brilliance (FR = inconsistent)

      Green (SR), best shooter but comes in waves, a better 2-guard, thinks fancy dribbling is being a PG, destined for the Harlem Globetrotters

      Demezi (SO), supposed to be a shooter but isn’t & destined to turn into a 4-yr bench role player

      Until Archie, or anyone, gets a truly elite PG, results will be sporadic.

      In my lifetime we’ve won 3 titles & let’s look at the guards on those teams;
      Buckner (PG) & Wilkerson; bench guard; bench guards Crews & Radford; as a team shot 52%
      Thomas (PG) & Wittman; bench guard Jim Thomas: as a team shot 53%
      Smart (PG) & Alford; bench guard Hillman : as a team shot 51% from 3!

      ‘93 Final Four team
      G. Graham Bailey; bench guards Reynolds & P. Graham: as a team shot 52% & 42% from 3

      The keys to good shooting are;
      1. Take good shots, something this team struggles to find.
      2. Have good shooters, and this team doesn’t.

      The only way to overcome this teams guard woes is to create offense off of defense in transition. I think we have the talent to do that, but our D goes south when shots aren’t falling.

      On to NW & OSU this week.

      1. Point guard and post…I was only saying it for months. Just about all deep tournament runs require elite point guard play and a very sound inside game.

        Even Butler’s deep runs a few years back were built on the shoulders of Shelvin Mack and Jeff Howard. Neither guy big NBA hits….Hayward was the versatile “star”…but the point guard (including Mack’s shooting ability at the point) and the relentless motor and smart play of Howard in the middle(fabulous vision as well) were the real key components.

        I knew getting Brunk would help us inside and make us far more sound in the middle…but the point guard play is disjointed.
        I wanted to give the ball to Franklin weeks ago and just roll with it. But I’m merely an armchair qb/pg ….
        I believe the near future(unless Archie somehow finds his Isiah Thomas in the next year or two) is best served to give Franklin the majority of point guard duties. I like his shooting touch more and I like his calm level of confidence. He’s going to make mistakes…but I’d rather see him work through much of those issues now .

  31. This sold called “embarrassing” loss dropped our NET ranking by 1 position to #45. And all 3 teams that beat us are above us in those same rankings with WI being the lowest at #26.

  32. “Hero Ball”. Exactly right. Perfect fit and description for Tom Crean’s ‘Dribble Drive’ go to man.

  33. We need a ‘Best Hoosier Guards To Never Play Any Significant Time in the NBA’ reunion…. Any suggestions from the Scoop family? I have a few:

    John Laskowski
    A.J. Guyton
    Earl Calloway
    Tom Coverdale
    Dane Fife
    A.J. Moye
    Jordan Hulls

    How about a best shooters to ever don the candy stripes list? Who was the most automatic? Who was money when it left the hands?

    Is Steve Alford #1…? Jay Edwards? Hulls? Isiah?

    Man, I miss having Hoosiers who were ‘money’ as soon as it left the hands. For Archie to earn his money, he needs to find some ‘money’ real soon.

  34. Probably great…but I didn’t see them play. How about the Van Arsdale twins? I didn’t see them play either …but I hear they were pretty decent.

    Should Eric Gordon be on the best shooters list? I only ask because the first two letters required for my ‘CAPTCHA’ requirement were EJ.

  35. Used to be the thing back in the day when I played hoops….Do guys still say “money” when splashing long bombs? You gotta think you’re “money” when you release the ball….Talk to the ball. Turn it to money. Watch it splash the cash register!

    I digress.

  36. Repeat after me, Hoosier guards:
    Whoosh Cha-ching!….Whoosh Cha-ching!….Whoosh Cha-ching!… Whoosh-tershire Sauce Cha-Ching! Whoosh Cha-Ching! …Whoosh Cha-ching! MONEY!

  37. Whoosh-tershire Sauce” to describe a prolific 3-point shooter is now the property of Harvard for Hillbillies.
    Any such use of the term without the legal and written consent of Harvard for Hillbillies shall be considered a copyright infringement and punishable under the current laws protecting such …blah..blah…blah (you know the drill).

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