IU rallies for 66-62 win over Northwestern

As a game-tying free throw fell through the net, Indiana’s Al Durham quickly spun around at the line and found his man in a full-court press.

Urgent, he was, as the Hoosiers aimed to no longer trail Northwestern on their home floor. In the course of that spin, Durham blurted out a cathartic word or two, releasing a tension that had built for far too long.

For much of the night, the Hoosiers were listless, watching the Wildcats (5-9, 0-4 Big Ten) run out to a 10-point lead with just under 12 minutes to go. It took a six-plus-minute scoring drought by Northwestern to open the door for an IU victory.

With every positive development in a 66-62 win over the Wildcats, the crowd at Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall answered with cheers, hungry to find belief in a team that, at times, didn’t appear capable of willing itself.

“You got that kind of crowd behind you, just waiting to burst,” IU coach Archie Miller said. “You give them a few things to cheer about, they’ll help you. They really want to help you. Don’t give them anything to cheer about, they’ll obviously sit there.”

In those final moments, IU gave fans what they had waited for all night.

Durham was aggressive, driving for trips to the foul line. Justin Smith, whose first half was marred by five turnovers, finally looked efficient, rolling to the rim for scores. In the end, the Hoosiers’ most consistent presence, freshman Trayce Jackson-Davis, violently slammed home an alley-oop pass from Rob Phinisee to give the Hoosiers a four-point lead with 1:24 remaining.

IU’s players were constantly muttering “Let’s go” to each other, and the crowd was already with them, in a full roar.

But what transpired in between couldn’t be forgotten. As the Hoosiers (12-3, 2-2) head into Saturday’s home game with No. 11 Ohio State, Miller wouldn’t just leave it at “a win’s a win.”

“I’ll be honest with you, I don’t necessarily know right now if the 11-guy rotation is going to work,” Miller said. “I just don’t know necessarily if that’s the best thing moving forward if we’re not going to get all 11 heated up and playing as hard and as unselfish as we possibly can.

“It may be five. It may be just five. I don’t know.”

That was a significant statement from a coach who came into the season touting the Hoosiers’ depth, bullish on their ability to be greater than the sum of their parts.

But not all of IU’s parts seemed to be functioning, which Miller and his players had to admit.

The shooting woes that have dogged the Hoosiers continued, adding up to a 37-percent effort versus the Wildcats. IU’s turnover issues were on full blast in the first half, just one short of a dozen.

What was worse was just a total lack of energy and focus, which followed IU’s initial 29-19 lead in the first half.

“We were definitely lacking some energy. Why? I couldn’t tell you,” said Smith, who finished with 18 points. “We need to be more engaged going into it. I think we kind of got a little comfortable, especially with the lead early on. And then they kind of hit us back and we didn’t respond until it was, like, 10 seconds left in the (first) half.”

It took until 11:59 left in the second half, when the Hoosiers trailed 50-40, for an alarm to finally go off. IU hunkered down on the defensive end. Durham, who was 4-of-4 from the free throw line in the first half, converted seven more points on eight more attempts to finish with 16.

Jackson-Davis ran his totals up to 21 points and seven boards.

But some of the Hoosiers’ prominent pieces were missing in action down the stretch, namely senior Devonte Green. The 6-foot-3 guard, who hit 0-of-6 from the field, played just six-plus minutes in the second half.

Miller didn’t name any names, but he intimated that minutes may become more scarce for IU’s underperforming players from here on out.

“We just play as many guys as we need to play to win the game and who is playing the hardest,” Miller said, “because you’re not going to be able to compete against Ohio State or anybody after that or moving forward, each down the line as teams keep getting better, if you’re still standing in the same conversation.”

In referencing the crowd, Miller seemed to understand the product Hoosier fans are wanting to see.

In his team’s lulls, there is an inability to play through mistakes and perform with a purpose. That left IU’s fans despairing and silent, waiting for the passion and urgency the Hoosiers played with down the stretch to arrive.

IU couldn’t wait any longer to deliver that Wednesday. Miller can’t wait any longer to see it consistently, from the first whistle to the last.

“We’re just searching for ourselves again rather than an unconditional approach and buy-in in terms of how hard it is to win a game and how fun it is to compete in that environment out there,” Miller said. “We’re a little bit more conditional right now. We’re a little bit more about ourselves. We’ve got to figure that out.”

86 comments

  1. Take a look the box score and see how IU won the game on the free throw line, also take a look at production from guards other than Durham, Long season awaits this IU team.

  2. I don’t think I’ve ever seen an IU team be so bipolar. ON in the 1st 8 min. & last 11 min. & OFF in between. Another night of 20 min. of playing toward our potential. But 20 min. of ZERO.

    Finally a kid steps up, picks up his man full court & basically says “enough is enough”. I give this win to Durham. Without him we lose by 10+, I think.

    Will it last?

    Arman & Phinisee continue to be lost. Good to see Green get sat down. Haven’t looked at his minutes but he was a ZERO aside from 1 FT & 1 good fast break pass (with his spicy mustard on it).

  3. Wonder if TDJ is a one and done player? If he is, the cupboard is bare and IU will be in even more trouble next season. Durham was the best guard tonight and he made two field goals. Let me repeat, the best guard on the team made two field goals. Where does Archie go to get a guard that can create his own shot off the dribble? Where does he go to get a guard that has the quickness to consistently beat his man, get in the lane and dish off for either easy hoops or wide open jump shots? I’m very confused as to how other coaches manage to do it. Does anyone on this post think the two guards coming in next season have that ability?

  4. Pretty impressed with last 1/4th of game. This team still seems rudderless. When you’re down double digits at home against a bad NW team that says a lot. Looking ahead, I don’t see AM lasting beyond this season unless the new AD is afraid to pull the trigger. All 3 seasons these kids have looked like scared junior high kids, at least in large portions of just about every game. If they were confident shooters before getting here, then they’re regressing.

  5. It’s difficult to watch this team. It’s painful, even when they win. Not sure which was harder to watch, IU getting crushed at Maryland or barely surviving against NW on their home court.

    Assembly Hall sounded like a tomb tonight. The IU faithful were not excited by tonight’s performance. Thankfully, Hoosiers are too polite to boo their own team, but I would not have been surprised if the boos had started raining down from the stands. Their were times during this game when IU’s ineptitude deserved to be booed.

    I witnessed some of the most careless turnovers made and some of the worst shots ever taken by an IU player tonight. At times it looked like a game of hot-potato had broken out on the court. Someone please tell me it’s going to get better soon.

      1. There should have been cheers for the Northwestern players….to replace the boos for the home team? I thought Indiana fans were supposed to know basketball?

        Although Durham stepped up, our team was asleep for most of the game. Cockiness and acting like he did after a couple plays guards are supposed to make…? Makes me more understand where the elbow came from. When you’re getting your butt handed to you for most of the game, cockiness and laughing it up after a bucket really isn’t the reaction that’s saying much about being a leader. Reminded me a lot of last season’s NIT game when guys were giggling on the bench in the closing moments of our loss…..Everybody is just having so much damn fun.

        I didn’t think we could find a lower place than the Crean years, but it’s not looking too good. Archie has no control of this bunch. It’s total dysfunction and the couple prima donnas on the team are making him look silly and weak.

        Fred retired at the right time…as in just before his ass would have been fired. He should have been fired with Crean three years ago for allowing the program to drop to the point of seeing cue cards being used as coaching props at McCracken…..Nothing will ever exceed the embarrassment of cue cards.

  6. And what’s wrong with Phinisee? Tonight he had 0 points and 3 Turnovers. Green, Phinisee and Franklin combined for 3 points and made 6 turnovers. That’s just terrible.

    1. Three totally different players: Rob is recovering his health and game savvy; Armaan is a freshman with ups and downs but lots of potential; Devonte is a senior captain who can’t play team ball!

  7. Brad, IU’s not going to fire Archie after this season. Glass will protect him, if for no other reason than to spare himself the embarrassment. But the main reason IU won’t fire Archie is because the buyout in Archie’s contract would cost IU too much money.

    Archie’s going to get at least one more season to prove he’s worth the big bucks that IU is paying him. Problem is, he’ll be a lame duck next season, and that’s not going to help him recruit elite players for the Class of 2021.

  8. Well, his 100% buyout doesn’t mean some IU boosters won’t write checks to get rid of him, and that could be influenced by the perceived availability of a highly coveted coach they want IU to hire. If Archie doesn’t produce a 23 or 24 win record in his fourth season, I think there’s a better than 50% chance he’ll be fired. In that scenario, which we all hope does not become reality, IU wouldn’t extend his contract or be comfortable having a lame-duck head coach. That would sacrifice an entire recruiting class, making it harder to attract the best coaching candidates to replace Archie.

    1. Who in the hell would want to be the next IU basketball coach if we can’t even give Archie three seasons to get things turned around?
      Good luck with that….Do that to Archie and the next celebrity-to-be will just be hungry for the money and the lore. We did that for 10 years prior to Archie. Don’t repeat the same mistakes.

  9. 15 games into the season, one can pretty much assess the team. It isn’t going to change much from here. This team is simply inconsistent. They’ll have games where they hit some shots & look like it’s turned around and games where they are “inept” to quote Fisch. They are incapable of playing well for 40 min.

    It is a maddening bunch to be sure. They’re not going to win pretty. They’ll win ugly & lose ugly. They’ll get blown out a lot more than they’ll deliver the same. Keep the Pepto Bismol handy.

    The only way to turn the tide, in my opinion, is to embrace ball pressure defense. Whether that’s full court or 1/2 court pressure, it is the only way this team can win & be consistent. Defense always plays because it is simply effort, toughness & focus. Offense requires so much more such as muscle memory & execution to overcome the effort on the other side of the ball. (Hence NW bobbing & weaving us to death for 30 min. We played awful defense for 30 min.)

    This just in but Archie was hired with a well known defense-first petigree. His Dayton teams were known for defensive efficiency. They turned defense into offense. That IS what we hired. IF we can play defense we can win again.

    Durham has his warts, but he’s a catalyst & he can play defense.
    Phinisee is still young & lost. He’s having no fun. If this continues he may transfer to find life.
    Arman is young & the Big Ten has swallowed him up. This isn’t S Dakota St.
    Green can’t play defense & is all about Green.
    Brunk brings toughness but is clunky. He puts shine on ugly.
    TJ-D is our best complete player. But he’s a freshman & freshmen are inconsistent. He’s our only smooth offensive player.
    Demezi, Hunter, Davis, & others are just minute eaters.

    I was hoping for 12-8 in the Big Ten, but that’s a stretch goal now. I suspect 10 wins +/- 2 is our likely range.

    1. I’m certainly not giving up on Franklin. I like the kid’s game. And I don’t consider Justin Smith a “minute eater.”

      Of course, I’ve had a few hours to cool off. I am beginning to wonder if this Indiana gig was just too big for Archie Miller. I thought a bit more personality from the guy would come through…He’s awfully flat. Trying to stay hopeful, but a bit more magnetic personality would go a long way with the fan base. Sense of humor, wit, self-deprecation…….Whatever it takes. I think the fan base is dying for some signs of spirited investment from the coach to ease the anxiety. Archie needs to be a bit more brutally honest in interviews and embrace this thing being a little more difficult than he ever imagined.
      I can live with a talented freshman in our backcourt getting “swallowed up” on occasion. What I didn’t expect was to see Archie Miller getting a bit swallowed up in the midst of the pressures and struggles to show a human side when things get tough.
      Did finding someone with personality also forever leave when Knight was fired?
      A bit concerned, because recruiting and selling yourself to the families of young kids making very big decisions ….sorta requires personality. Can a coach just come across as so much “all business” as to become boring?

  10. Great contest on Jeopardy Greats. Plus warm up with wheel of Fortune featuring Vanna White and Maggie Sajak along with original Jeopardy.

  11. This team is terrible! They have absolutely NO guard play! They are the worst IU shooting team I have seen in years. They are selfish at best, saw three separate plays tonight where we were fast breaking on offense and had a player under the basket open and didn’t pass him the ball as the ball handler shot and missed….what the hell!! Their defense at times is nonexistent! At one time during the game they were 4 for 25 from behind the 3 point line, OMG! Free throw shooting is terrible. I will say that Joey Brunk works his ass off and is probably the best player on the team. Tonight was his 4th game in a row of double digit rebounds. When the team does get him the ball inside he normally scores but, they fail on many occasions to try to get the ball to him? AWinAz is correct, they will struggle to be 500% in the conference.

  12. I have had a growing concern that CAM is going to run out of time before he can get the program flaws corrected. The biggest thing I see on this team is an absolute leadership vacuum. Who is the go to guy that will deliver in the clutch? Who is the guy that everyone on the team looks to when things get tough?

    This problem is even more magnified when the best players on your team are underclassmen and their inexperience is showing. Even worse the best leader on your team has hit the Sophomore slump and is battling injuries at the same time. Couple this with several other unfortunate circumstances and you have the making of a perfect storm for IUBB. This is the point where we are going to find out if IU made the right hire with CAM. He came in doing and saying all the right things, but at some point there has to be measurable progress on the court.

    I am of the mindset that IU should give CAM at least next year and probably the year after to get things straightened out. My main reason for this is the 4 upperclassmen as evidence. None of them have adequately addressed the leadership vacuum on this team and that is probably more than half the problem with this team.

    1. Even worse the best leader on your team has hit the Sophomore slump

      I remember when Isiah hit his sophomore slump and led us to a championship. You can do it, Rob! See the Isiah. Be the Isiah.

      What’s up with you guys? What don’t you get? Archie’s first seasons have basically filling in around a roster already in place. He’s had no chance or time for a recruiting bonanza. And you don’t believe those who Archie recruits look at players already in place from a previous regime/coach? You honestly don’t think the talent and personalities already on a roster affects the next decision of the next recruit? You think the recruit merely looks at the coach and not what’s already in place?

      Many of you on here sound outright disingenuous. Unless Archie was ruthless enough to force some transfers, his own hands became rather tied in his recruiting efforts. I would say they were even more tied in recruiting really high level backcourt talent.
      And more honestly….? If you can’t get out of the recruiting gate quickly, this is the result. It’s going to take some home runs and some luck. Tom Crean would have never got out of the recruiting gate if it weren’t for one name. All of you know that. Archie needs some time to assemble his own team. He needs time for a team to graduate some of its rather dysfunctional pieces so the potential incoming recruit views all in a more positive light.
      And, probably most importantly, he needs the fan base to rally around him in the manner they rallied around Crean when our program was so-called “decimated.”
      Crean was a master of manipulation and playing the part of “saving” Indiana. Likely, some dimwits on here almost believed his arrival was biblical in nature. “Rising” and “Resurrection” were part of the vocabulary. There is a lot of resentment being focused on Archie because many believe the savior was mistreated. Resentment is an ugly thing. It’s preventing Indiana from allowing Archie a chance….His personality may not be equipped. His style and more humble demeanor may not be equipped. Maybe he had some sort of idea this could happen….Maybe he didn’t realize the sheep would turn to wolves so quickly.

      I still believe this team will make the NCAA tournament. The grind is long.

      1. Speaking of disingenuous, you’re still on this kick of intentionally mischaracterizing certain aspects of Crean’s tenure. It’s so unnecessary, given his many shortcomings, and it’s mostLy untrue, which you already know. Why do you knowingly do that?

        Instead, you supported a rule breaker who lied to IU on multiple occasions, broke the rules he swore he’d uphold, and ignored the academic challenges of his players who were, well, college students. He literally didn’t care about them. Why would you think that’s okay and instead support that startling lack of integrity?

        As for Miller, he gets five years unless he turns into a rule breaker. He won’t do that unless he’s stupid.

        1. I’m not mischaracterizing anything….It’s all accurate.

          Crean was a farce…is a farce…and will always be a farce. He received the job via nepotism and inside dealings. He sat in on a committee room to determine the naming of his own Athletic Director. It’s all fact. Nothing mischaracterized. And the Joey Glass’s foolish spilling of beans in his letter to the Marquette Wire actually exists….Care to read his glowing endorsement of bozo again? These boys all knew each other and they concocted their way into Indiana.
          They preferred to make things into witch hunts instead of simply moving on….They will go down as clowns. Most here recognize what a disaster Crean was for IU Basketball.

          He went from committee room to name his own AD to using cue cards in an actual game. I mean, what else do you really need to know. You want some Joyce Meyer and Teri Moren endorsements….Be my guest. I don’t care.

          Take another look at the glare Knight gave him when Crean attempted to accost him for the handshake of validation. I’m siding with Bobby in summing up with his eyes what a few of you will forever deny. It’s fine…You’re entitled to your blind faith.

          1. Your characterization of how he got the IU job and any role he had in Glass being hired is totally incorrect. You’re either lying or you’ve been naively misled. Either way, what you’re peddling as truth is completely and totally false. He was insincere in many ways and someone IU should’ve never hired, but lying about how he or Glass came to their IU jobs isn’t somehow justified by TC’s poor qualities.

          2. What don’t you get, dude? Crean was on the committee to choose/nominate/elect/select his own AD. Show me anywhere else in the history of college basketball where that has been done. It’s unprecedented and will, forever, remain unprecedented.

            And the Joey letter is out there…Find it. Deny it. Glass’s son had nothing but oodles of love oozing out his veins for Tom Crean long before Crean sat in the room to help name his daddy AD.

            There are no mysteries. If Jeremy allows, I’ll gladly give you every link giving the details of both committee rooms…What young “fan” at Marquette would be so invested in a coach to write a letter-to-the-editor…? Oh, yes, it’s all just a coincidence. Nobody knew anybody….lol.

          3. IU has several varsity coaches on the current committee to find Glass’s successor. Do you really think any of them will actually hire the new AD? Do you really not have any better understanding of how those types of committee’s work, and how they’ve always worked at IU? You really don’t have any better grasp of how the hiring process at IU works? As for Glass’s kid writing a gushing letter, you can’t be seriously that naive to believe that was influential, can you? For your sake, I hope you’re kidding about all of this and not really this unaware about how things truly work at IU.

          4. Varsity coaches…? You can’t be so naive, can you? Men’s Basketball at IU rules the roost, my friend.
            The more you spin, the more you sound like another inside meddler and…the more you help my argument. Keep it up.

            Glass had plenty of dealings in Indy with others in the committee rooms. It was all nepotism. The son was merely a bean-spiller ‘tell’ of what was heading down the turnpike.

            And calling Sampson a liar? Sure, terrible, terrible man. And Bill Self doesn’t lie? And Sean Miller doesn’t lie? And Roy Williams doesn’t lie? And shall we just keep on going down the list of the many so-called “elite” basketball coaches given a pass from the media and the “judges” for governing ethical behavior in college basketball (you must be on the ruling court) from ghost classes to FBI wiretaps catching them red-handed in their cheating deeds? John Calipari and Derrick Rose…and a falsified SAT exam? Huh, that up-and-standing member of the basketball community is still coaching?
            And you’re calling me naive? Well, you’re naive and a hypocrite like the rest giving that crowd of cheats passes if you think the cesspool begins and ends with a 3-way caller made his name in Montana. Lying permeates all of college basketball.
            I would assume you’re still watching it amongst all the liars and cheaters? What Sampson did is a couch fart by comparison…And your hero, Tom Crean, never had the nut sack to talk of the real scumbags in the sport. I witnessed him throw nothing but love kisses at UNC and Calipari…but, somehow, he made one “wrecker” the villain of college basketball. Stamp farce on your forehead with the charlatan.

        2. Toddy Leary was taken out of Assembly in handcuffs…He probably still gets Christmas cards from Sampson haters. There are roads to redemption for all….
          Knight choked a kid in a practice.
          People make mistakes…Some people make them as a habit. But when someone stands on his Indiana perch as judge, jury and executioner …and then chases down an assistant coach 3 years after taking the job at Indiana? Total farce. Nothing mischaracterized.

          1. I can forgive Knight for being an ass for decades….? And I can forgive the fact that the poor young man he choked probably needed years to recover from being painted the villain in our ‘zero tolerance’ wonderful world post choking? He’s dead now.
            So I’m not supposed to forgive Sampson for some bogus NCAA 3-way calling rules (while they don’t go after the true criminals in college sports) for trying to bring in ‘ghetto thugs’ (one of which who actually spent time living in a car in D-Wade’s hometown) and give them a chance at chicks and glory? Hell, I’d do it all over again. I’d give ten more basketball scholarships to run 10 frat rats out of town in a Mellencamp Navigator.

          2. You continue to defend a cheater and liar who didn’t care about the academics of his players. Sampson never admitted wrongdoing or apologized for his actions, either, yet his apologists excuse and even celebrate his unethical behavior.

          3. Ah, the “everybody lies so it doesn’t matter if my guy lies” rationalization! Always the leader in excuse making. Sampson, cheated, lied by saying he wouldn’t do it again, cheated again, lied about it again, then threw a tantrum when IU finally decided they couldn’t abide that kind of behavior. Oh, and he didn’t care in the least if anyone went to class or even tried to act like a student. And you think that’s perfectly acceptable.

            And yes, you’re incredibly and almost pitifully naive if you actually think Glass was hired by Crean, or that Glass’s kid’s letter to the editor about Crean was influential in FG’s hiring. Not knowing how search committees at IU and every school actually work further confirms your total lack of understanding.

  13. By his own words it is easy to see Coach Miller is going to tighten down the screws on players bringing little value to a successful season. As punctuated by benching Green in preparation for his eligibility limited 2k20-21 season. AWinAZ got it exactly correct. On ball pressure defense every opponent possession, all game, every game. Which is AM’s DNA.
    GO HOOSIERS!

  14. Said it before and will say it again. Not saying Archie can’t get it done at IU but with each passing game it seems more unlikely. But to those who think he can, PLEASE, what shred of evidence is that based on?

    1. 81,
      I gave you very good evidence with the only upperclassmen CAM is stuck with. It’s like have 4 square blocks you are trying to fit into round holes. Doesn’t work real well, and certainly not in the system CAM is trying to install. Everyone talks about the disjointed nature of the team’s performance. That is much indicative of the poor philosophical fit concerning the 4 upperclassmen on the team.

      Everyone always says, “Get rid of the problems.” TLC certainly dropped enough off the edge of the cliff. Well, there is one little problem that everyone seems to have conveniently forgotten. Last year to much fanfare, IU adopted a “Student Athlete Bill of Rights.” Some of the critics might want to go back and look at that little document. One of the primary parts of the document is to guarantee the athlete his or her scholarship whether or not the performance is up to par or not. It is a steep hill to climb to dismiss an athlete, got to have significant issues.

      I often wonder if the IU policy could better be called the TLC Prevention Bill, but regardless, if the kid wants to stay, the coach’s hands are tied. I know some will say there are ways a coach can “encourage” an athlete to move on, but if you are guaranteed 4 years and elsewhere is not happening???

      There are exceptions but team leadership from within normally comes from the upperclassmen. This lot is far from the exceptional leadership IUBB has seen in the past. May not be necessarily bad kids, but certainly not the leadership CAM needs on the floor. Problem is, CAM is stuck with them this year for sure, and to a lessening effect, next year as well.

      1. That is a “red herring” about the student-athletes bill of rights. As a coach you do the recruiting: the athletic side, the academic side, the citizenship side. If you make a mistake on the athletic side, tough. You don’t have to play the kid, just be fair, respectful, and decent. Explain why he will not play, offer meaningful practice and coaching, keep good communication. So instead of 12 players you may only have 11 or 10. As Archie is learning, that may be a blessing!

  15. When Archie Miller was hired and came to his first I U Rally at Huber’s some of the fan’s were made the chant that its, “Miller Time” it may turn out to be a “Miller’s Lite” at best or an empty Miller’s bottle with a little fizz remaining in the bottle.

  16. Think is correct in stating a “Leadership vacuum”. We hear about the great practices but those aren’t or don’t translate into game performance. There is no ON THE COURT leadership; freshmen and sophomore’s are STILL finding themselves. Can’t count Hunter as a sophomore ;he’s strictly by all accounts a freshman. Someone called the team bipolar and you have to step back and count on fingers the number of underclassmen on this team. Justin Smith by his own words says he is a laid back and doesn’t say much; well there is ONE self admitted “floating leaf on the water” leader. Can’t count on him to be anything more than going along with whatever is the “flavor of the month”. THEY PLAY UNHAPPY. Unhappy like a spouse in a dull marriage. No Bright days but then no Dark nights, everything is grey. They displayed that tonight. CAM yells and they say OK , go on the floor and fall back into GREY Habits. That may explain why there are GREAT practices and poor game performances. The Players lean on leadership from Archie but on the floor no one is takeing up the mantle and as long as they play “grey” handing the leadership mantle to ANYONE just gets dropped. What’s the answer perhaps Hoosier Nation treating these KIDS as KIDS and asking would you put this much pressure on your son or daughter if they were struggling in a class room. Expectations can be good; expectations can also be ruinous.

    1. It was Justin Smith’s leadership last night that saved the game….Leadership doesn’t have to come via cockiness or lack of sportsmanship….or retaliating against someone massaging your kidneys.
      Smith is the most mature kid on this team. You think it’s a mess now? Remove Justin Smith and its a daycare center on a diet of sugar cubes.

      I’ve seen numerous examples of Justin Smith huddling guys together and talking it up in timeouts. Quiet? Maybe a bit. But he’s a leader via example and he plays the game with all-out effort.

      I think he’s a top-of-class individual. He’s intelligent. He makes plays without showboating. He gives the team its only mature foundation it’s in dire need.
      Kid is genuine. We’re lucky to have him…Crean got a few things right.

  17. I was elated by the win.

    TJ, as you probably recall, I identified this “lack of enthusiasm” amongst our team prior to the Princeton game. I believe I can quote myself accurately by stating “they came out looking like factory workers beginning their shift.”

    I’d feel badly for them EXCEPT for the fact that Aljami Durham (who was, perhaps, the only player other than Devonte Green who I truly enjoyed watching) cold-cocked an Arkansas player and faced no penalty other than being thrown out of the game.

    Yes, it will be a long season, because no one enjoys participating in the N.I.T.

  18. With 68 teams in NCAA tournament it’s a disgrace to not make March Madness tournament (with rare exception) for what is supposedly a basketball school.
    Chuck 81 reality is there is no shred of evidence that A.M. can get it done. think and others are so blind they “can’t see the forest for the trees.” Just defenses, excuses, wishes, and hopes when it comes to IU men’s basketball. Same thing for sustainability in football by think and others.

    Though not sure about IU bill of so called rights T.Moren coaches under same thing. She lead IU Ladies basketball program and some decommitted, transferred, quite, played with injuries (Buss played better injured sometimes). The best players played. Jena Allen/Bedford
    decommitted for MSU. Her sister Jori/Miss Indiana basketball is now a Lady Hoosier. From Notre Dame is Indiana Miss basketball Patberg and Danielle Patterson (for next year). T. Moren and Lady Hoosiers program have similar characteristics to B.K. coached IU teams. T. Moren is what leadership and building a program looks like.

    1. t,
      Let’s take off the nostalgic crimson colored glasses and view things realistically. IU hasn’t truly been a basketball school in over 20 years. Yes, there have been a few hits and misses along the way, but the administrative decisions made were not in line with having a basketball school.

  19. IMO, the “Bill of Rights” has nothing to do with this mess. Coaches can incentivize most players to transfer if they’re not working out. At the very least, they simply won’t be allowed to play, and 99.9% of all scholarship guys at this level want to play. I don’t think this roster includes any guys like Tim Priller, who clearly stayed on the team in order to get his education.

    Archie is in his third season as IU’s coach and I would be shocked if he was fired after this season. Too costly to pay off his contract buyout. He’ll get a fourth season at IU, which will determine if he gets a fifth. But he’ll be labeled a lame duck throughout that fourth season whether it’s true or not. And that’s not going to help him recruit the talent he needs to increase wins. These days, the reality is that a highly paid BB coach and a major program gets three seasons to show he can move the needle. After three seasons, if there is no significant progress, people begin losing patience and withdrawing their support, recruiting declines and the coach’s seat starts to get very hot. Look what UCLA did to Steve Alford after five seasons and a record of 124 – 63, and he was a much more accomplished coach than Archie is now. Everything is relative to expectations!

    I keep going back to the fact that Archie has had these upperclassmen, most of whom were recruited by Crean, for three seasons. And they’re just not improving in any meaningful way. Even Archie’s recruits, with the exception of TJD, are not showing significant improvement. Our guards are, for the most part, terrible. And two of them are Archie’s recruits. None of our players can make a 3-point shot to save their lives. FT shooting remains well below average, and we continue to make some of the dumbest turnovers I’ve ever seen. Those who point out that their is no leadership on the floor are correct. And that’s all on Archie. And it’s not as if Archie’s performance in recruiting gives anyone hope that much better talent will arrive soon. Anthony Leal may be a very good player, but he’s not going to be enough to transform next year’s roster into a Big Ten juggernaut.

    I’m starting to understand why Glass chose to retire in May.

    1. Po,
      I threw the Student Bill of Rights out there mainly to generate a less myopic discussion of this issue. However, I will take issue with your comments regarding the 4 upperclassmen’s lack of improvement over 2 1/2 seasons. To be honest, I don’t think these upperclassmen can improve in the CAM system, because all 4 are extremely ill suited for the system CAM brought in. They were part of TLC’s “throw it up against the wall to see if it sticks recruiting” in the last few years of his tenure.

      I tried to support TLC for as long as I could, but it became obvious that the bloom was well off the rose where he was concerned. The problem is that CAM has been stuck cleaning up the mess left behind. If it hadn’t been such a mess, TLC would still be at IU.

      Should CAM have encouraged the current Senior class, who would be Sophomores, and the Junior class, which had just been recruited by TLC to look elsewhere when he took over? In hindsight, probably so. As for CAM’s current Freshmen and Sophomore classes who actually ARE his recruits, we have a mixed bag severely marred by last year’s catastrophic injury situation. He had a swing and a miss on Jake Forrester and an attempted quick fix with Evan Fitzner. Damezi has yet to prove himself, and I am not sure if Rob, Race, and Jerome will ever be what they were before their health issues. As for Romeo, everyone knew he would be a one and done.

      That leaves us this year’s Freshmen and one transfer. If you look at their progress thus far, not too bad. TJD & AF have done quite well for themselves as Freshmen despite the usual first year issues. As for JB, I think he is giving just about all he can which was all we could have asked for.

      Here is the real problem for CAM. In reality Rob, Race, and Jerome were the heart and soul of last year’s incoming class which at this point, should have been turning the program around. Romeo was nice, but no one expected him to stay 4 years. Unfortunately for CAM and IUBB, the heart and soul of a major recruiting class was devastated by injuries which linger to this very day. That is something very few programs can overcome, especially when trying to implement a completely different system than was inherited.

      1. Should CAM have encouraged the current Senior class, who would be Sophomores, and the Junior class, which had just been recruited by TLC to look elsewhere when he took over? In hindsight, probably so.

        You finally came around to what I said weeks (months?) ago….Thanks for making it your own. Have I told you Penix may not hold up to the punishment of the BigTen? Just kidding…

      2. And let’s not forget Romeo got injured at the end of last season….How do we finish out the stretch if he’s totally healthy?
        But at the end of the day (and forgive me for my inherent bias) , he was a damn fool for not embracing Indiana like the fans embraced him on his announcement to come to Bloomington. There are things bigger ….How can one look into the eyes of excitement in a youngster standing in a line at New Albany High School looking for a hero and then simply discard the day and the memory?
        There are no more heroes….The cream and crimson might as well be tomorrow’s dry cleaning.

        Archie wouldn’t be anywhere near a hot seat….if it wasn’t all about “me” and money. Romeo on this roster makes us a Top-10. But is what it is…and Archie’s checkbook is certainly not suffering so it’s all sort of a moot point.

        And Crean’s likely not in Georgia if Zeller keeps the memory of a child in his heart who lined up at Washington High School seven years prior. Honestly, why do they line up? Why do they fill their high school gyms for their announcements? Why? Somebody please tell me….

  20. What is more dysfunctional?
    A. This team.
    B. The IU fan base.
    C. Washington D.C.

    There’s no “D. All of the above” choice here.

    H4H, how could I forget J. Smith??? The same dude who got caught in la-la land on that backcut. I’ve never seen someone so lost. But he did bring effort from about the 11 min. mark on in the 2H. Led by Durham. Per my original post, can Durham be “that guy” that provides the leadership to get us over the hump? It finally looked like it last night. I deplore his elbow incident btw & wrote how I’d have sat him @ MD. To me this team was lost w/o him vs. ARK. We had nobody to stop the bleeding.

    On the topic of the lack of intensity or just clocking in to the factory….I think the students not being on campus is a BIG distraction for this team. Let’s face it, the energy in the building is 100X when grandpa, grandma, mom, dad and the grandkids aren’t filling those same seats. The effort and energy in the FSU game has overwhelming. It is hard to play against that. But when you can hear the baby’s bottle drop the place is simply another gym holding no advantage. They should think about offering the Bloomington N & S kids, and Columbus N & E kids free tickets when the students are gone.

    1. On the topic of the lack of intensity or just clocking in to the factory….I think the students not being on campus is a BIG distraction for this team

      BINGO…Saturday will be rockin’. And no rivalry game dispersed amongst the December/holiday doldrums (thank you, Fred) to really get a fan based super-excited. Do you think Georgia had a packed arena in their last game because they were playing Northwestern?

      Durham did play hard….I’ll give you that one. Maybe he can be the spark. I think you’re also forgetting the key steal Smith made (knocked the ball away from a driving Wildcat …Not sure who the Wildcat had blown by….? Durham?)…And then Smith immediately hustles his butt down court and gets fed for a really nice finish at the rim on a breakaway(and gets fouled)…IMHO, that was the play that really turned the momentum and got the assisted living crowd off their seats…

    2. AWinAZ- Your last paragraph is funny as hell…You made me chuckle. We need more of that on here. “Hear the baby’s bottle drop…” That was wonderful….
      I also liked your idea of giving the local h.s. students some free tickets….But in switching it up, can you pull them away from their Nintendo Switches? Might be hearing the dropping of Switch pacifiers instead of baby’s bottles…

    3. Burned on a backdoor by a Northwestern team? Wow…That’s breaking news. Do the Cubs have World Series droughts?

      I did throw Bill Carmody’s name out there after firing the charlatan….
      I also had a wish long ago(shortly after the Crean hire) to have Rick Majerus as our coach…
      And then I saw an interview with Bill Coen (Northeastern) and fell in love with a guy who could love Hoosier basketball so much without ever being from the Midwest or Indiana.
      Also liked Underwood a ton before Illinois snatched him up….Underwood sort of had a big win last night.
      Of course, always like Beilein too…But he was taken. He’s in a bit of hot water right now…for using a word that was used about 10,000 times on here to describe ex-Kelvin players.

      I like Archie as an upgrade, but he was never my first personal choice to take us back to the promise land. Archie did have the hottest wife..Should consider taking her with on recruiting trips….

      1. H4H,
        The real foul up dates back further to when Billy Donovan was begging for the job. My oh my, how hindsight is 20/20.

        1. …or not going after Stevens full steam….I’m sure there was a window somewhere in the midst of chasing Jeff Meyer down after a Michigan win and a memorable bucket drained by Watford in a rivalry game we have no more.

          Don’t mean to pat myself on the back, but I knew weeks into hiring Crean that we were in for a decade of window dressing. We didn’t get here because of genuineness and having Indiana Basketball’s real resurgence as a priority. It was all about parading and talking down to a segment of the population searching for villains who don’t know any better (consult AWinAZ’s list). National politics mirrors much the same….Building a mirage of success on the backs of those made into villains. The rich get richer. The bamboozled stay bamboozled. The poor get poorer.

          Is this the year of great vision…or the year of great hindsight? Being that it is 2020…

  21. To many (overwhelming majority) of administration, ADs and coaches are just to content, happy, joyous with the enormous amounts of money flowing their contracts. Thanks for the opportunity. If things are successful that’s great and I may become a legend. If things don’t work out thanks for the opportunity and I will move on. The financial security is great. Again, thanks.

  22. Good point, t. Being hungry helps build hunger. A lot of full stomachs and full wallets the moment a contract is signed. Winning is frosting for a coach….but there will always be plenty of cash and cake no matter the results. It’s just a sad reflection of the craziness that has beset upon high profile jobs while so many people need two and three jobs just to pay rent and meet grocery bills.

    Somehow …and for some reason we still stay interested. I just wonder how long a majority of entertainment viewers will stomach such ‘in-your-face’ hypocrisy , wealth and privilege forever in the face. Sort of amazing a cheer can even be found….It’s not the colors or the school that makes the world go round. And now we get to gaze up at the sky boxes in Skjodt (guess I shouldn’t assume everyone here isn’t a sky box member) and get more wealth segregation thrown in the face. Do those in sky boxes really care if IU wins or loses…or is it just about flaunting status? Never thought I’d see a day when the old rockin’ Assembly Hall would be bastardized to the point of allowing a flaunt museum behind glass….Basketball was, in my foolish perceptions through the history of the game resided in the hearts of humble Hoosiers, to have always represented a church of gymnasium togetherness. I’m so damn naive.

  23. the video of comments made by CAM gave me insight to a possibility of change. CAM sounded like a coach on a mission. I think he is tired of cajoling the players to perform on both ends of the court. He sounded more “Knight-ish” than previous coach. What I liked is he didn’t throw a singular player “under the bus” but let be known if you don’t perform; you don’t play. I think, Archie understands the I U Legacy better than the players ,even from Indiana, do. I was impressed with Archie’s controlled focused, intensity. He definitely understands how important “Hoosier Nation” is to the success of the team.

  24. think, the hypothesis that Crean-recruited players just can’t be made to work in Archie’s system is less and less credible with every passing game. And it is further eroded by the success that programs like OSU, Louisville and Dayton are having this season. The coaches at those schools have all recruited better talent than Archie has recruited to IU and they’ve found ways to make the talent they inherited work just fine. Archie’s system is different from Crean’s system, but it’s not that unique or special. Heck, Arkansas’ new coach only has 8 scholarship players, none of which stand over over 6′ 8″ and he got them to beat IU on our home court!

    Archie inherited Crean’s recruits when they were incoming freshman or inexperienced sophomores. Sure they had tendencies when they arrived on campus, but good coaches find ways to improve young players. But none of those guys are improving! And with the exception of TJD, the players Archie has recruited aren’t doing any better!

    But let’s say your hypothesis is correct, and Crean-recruited players just can’t be made to function in Archie’s system. Then why hasn’t Archie moved any of them out and replaced them with recruits that fit his system? Why are Crean’s players still getting lots and lots of playing time? With two recruiting classes under his belt, Archie could have eight hand-picked players on the roster that fit his system perfectly, and they could be getting 90% of the playing time. Is Archie too nice a guy to bench players or show them the writing on the wall?

    Regardless of this debate, the fact is that Archie is not getting it done right now. His basketball team is not any good.

      1. Sadly, I think that’s true. But why isn’t Archie cutting them, Clarion…? Why, dear why?
        Answer: No program “wrecker”…”cheat”…”liar” to attach their names. These are altar boys who should be given gentle hands. These are fine students. These are relatives of NBA players…These are surrogate sons of the last coach. Archie may not be the best Sweet 16 coach since Apple Jacks were invented, but he ain’t stupid. If he thinks he;s feeling heat now, just try cutting or shoving off an altar boy.
        Just listen to some of these staunch defenders of Crean…..Maybe I’m naive, but somehow I tend to think Crean’s holdovers are coveted the same.
        I’m not sure now if Davis was resented more post Knight firing…or Archie resented more post Crean firing. Good luck, Archie. I don’t think there’s much hope without a miracle walking through your door willing to be more than a one-and-done.

        1. Arithmetic tough for you? For what good? To create less competition in practice?They are warm bodies on scholarship. He’d be ostracized in a #’s bind playing 4 on 5 in a game. At least they’re some kind of practice fodder. Poof, in roughly 70 days they’re gone.

    1. Po,
      I think H4H & HC pretty much gave you the reality of what CAM is facing. Add to this the 3 most key players to your rebuild (Rob, Race, & Jerome), may never get back to what we hoped they would be. As HC said, look at the numbers. Of the 11 scholarship CAM has the 3 I spoke of leaving 8. Of those 8, 3 are newcomers to the program and are at various levels of capability at this point. Of the remaining 5, I don’t think DD will ever be able to be close to what he could have due to the injuries. His real problem is those injuries severely limit his capabilities in CAM’s system.

      Of the remain 4 players (3 of which are upperclassmen which a team must built upon), none has shown the consistency needed to play at a B1G level. As much as I like JS, his game is tied to his athleticism, not so much skill. AD is doing as much as he can, but his skill set is not what you would anchor your team on. DA has yet to come up speed in his 2nd year, which concerns me greatly because I think he is a great kid. Finally DG still has not be able to get the street ball out of his mentality. It might work at some programs, but not very well in the CAM system which explains some of the Jekyll and Hyde results.

      Quite frankly, I see the incoming freshmen this coming fall as an upgrade over the departing seniors. I believe the 3 newcomers are a much better fit for what CAM is trying to do. Comparing what CAM is trying to do at IU versus most other schools is not apples to apples. Many come in doing virtually the same thing which their predecessors were doing and of course there is a certain degree of success, but will that short term success ever hang banners? Recent history being the guide, the answer is no.

      Which brings up the question, “Do we want to hang banners or do we just want the accolades of a program that wins frequently but never a championship?”

  25. “Trickle down dysfunction”…and rosters “built of NBA pick-up sticks.”

    Damn, there I go again. Cue the Hobbs. It takes a lot of strike outs …but then….It’s back…It’s way back.

  26. We fell to 9 spots to #53 in the NET after the win. Wow! These computer algorithms are unforgiving. BTW, Clappy the Clown’s team (UGA) is #55. Right on our heels, and quite honestly alarming, since he started a year after Archie down there & arguably arrived with even less.

    NET don’t lie. We beat #18 FSU at home but the next highest win was ND at #80. OSU is #12. We need this next one.

  27. the 3 most key players to your rebuild (Rob, Race, & Jerome), may never get back to what we hoped they would be

    Partly true….but I’m not sure if I’m buying into it completely. It’s sort of hanging out there like the Penix argument. Injuries are part of any sport for any coach. Look at how scant that Northwestern roster was….? They battled their butts off and found a way. Yes, we should do the arithmetic. Northwestern was without their best player and I believe they began the night with eight available players. If not for a few big plays by Durham and Smith, they steal a game at Skjodt against a Hoosier team that was sleepwalking for most of the game.

    I don’t believe any of us saw enough(or have seen enough) of Race and Jerome to say these were going to be real program-changing talents if not for their injuries. Regardless, there is a point where Archie has to own the team’s performance with or without those in a seemingly perpetual injury cycle.
    There is an argument that Crean wasn’t afforded the injury excuses of Anunoby and Hartman….and others (Blackmon experienced knee injuries as well)…

    I honestly think what hurt us the most was Romeo going pro. It’s a different season with a healthy Romeo back. Archie couldn’t reset with a backcourt talent piece high enough to replace the loss of Romeo Langford. If you can’t find the talent, you can’t sign the talent.

    Crean faced the same issues…and he’ll face them at Georgia as well. It’s very difficult to compete with the programs pulling in the majority of top talent. When you do land your one or two superstars, you have to hope you can somehow nail them down for more than one season. I can name three season at IU in which Crean likely has a Final Four trip if he gets one returning superstar who had decided to enter the draft from the previous year. Those seasons all involved the names Zeller, Vonleh, Anunoby and Bryant.

    If Jackson-Davis leaves for the draft after this season, it will hurt more than if Thompson and Hunter had never been injured.

    Lastly, when you have perceived coaching pedigree, you still land a higher average level of talent around the superstars. The bumps in the road when your superstars bolt for the NBA (sometimes faster than anticipated) aren’t quite as severe for the Jay Wrights and Tony Bennetts of the world.
    Archie is still not coaching pedigree….nor is/was Crean. Getting teams to play inspired and together is critical because the the superstars are sparsely dispersed amongst a group of 3 and 4 stars types. Getting the superstar to stay more the one season can change your world and make life a lot easier.

  28. Guys, this is interesting for me because while I don’t buy your hypothesis, I hope you’re right. I really hope the primary problem with this roster is that Crean’s recruits are not a fit for Archie’s system and that there is nothing Archie can do to “fix” them. I really hope that with each new recruiting class, the team’s performance will get better and better. But I’m not seeing that now, and with the exception of Romeo and TJD, Archie is simply not signing enough of the right talent. That opinion is backed up by the number of Archie’s recruiting targets that have signed with other programs. Remember, Archie has whiffed on many of his primary recruiting targets since arriving in Bloomington, and he couldn’t even fill the fourth scholarship in next year’s class. The kids in his first two recruiting classes can’t shoot, don’t make free throws and make a lot of turnovers. Phinisee appears to have regressed this season. Hunter hasn’t been healthy and Anderson is probably as good as he’s going to get. Franklin looks lost much of the time. So that leaves Brunk and TJD. Brunk was a good pick-up but is offensively limited. And next season, there won’t be another big available to back him up. TJD is an excellent talent, but is not physically mature enough to score when getting muscled around by Big Ten power forwards and centers in the paint.

    So what happens if your hypothesis is wrong? What happens if, after Green and Davis graduate and are replaced by Archie’s recruits, the team’s performance does not significantly improve next season? Do you think IU’s new AD is going to put his job on the line and give Archie an extension after four mediocre seasons in hopes that your hypothesis is correct? Do you think Archie will be able to sign a top-notch 2021 recruiting class as a lame duck?

    1. Po,
      I think your final question is where the real answer will be found. We all hate to wait, but the truth of the matter is “time will tell if we are correct or not.” I think the hardest thing for the TLC supporters to come to gripes with is the downturn in TLC recruits in his last years. Yes, there were some good ones, but they all left mainly to pursue nba ambitions. However, there was a growing mess being created which, in hindsight, was not that much better than what TLC inherited himself when coming to IU. Especially with nearly all of what little talent there was on the team leaving as CAM came in.

      We have to be honest with ourselves and ask the question, “Were the 3 recruiting classes CAM inherited from TLC something you could realistically build a winning program on?” With the exception of JM, I don’t think so, and he certainly wasn’t enough to do it all by himself. Add to this the massive injury problem faced last year and still lingering this year, and you have a recipe for a major problem. We need to look around the country at the many teams suffering this year and last year with only one or two major injuries versus the massive outbreak at IU last year. At this point, I’m more worried that Rob, Race, and Jerome will never come back to speed which will equal a lost recruiting class.

      The real proof of the pudding is if TLC hadn’t left a major mess would he still be here? The obvious answer to that question is if it had not been a mess, TLC would still be here and we wouldn’t be having this discussion. There was no particular animosity towards TLC other than some major philosophical differences as long as he was producing, but those would not have gotten him fired. However, when that production trend began to show signs of being a lost cause, a change was in order. I know H4H would not be anywhere near as gentle in his assessment of TLC, but the truth of the matter is TLC left the program in nearly as bad of shape as what he inherited. You couple this with Archie’s first major recruiting class being all but decimated, and you have your answer.

    2. For every “whiff” there’s an Oladipo….For every highly touted recruit, there is a Mac McClung who can become the backbone of your team.

      Resets in programs are just a bit different than in 1971…but Archie is as capable as anyone. Simply because he “whiffs” on a top recruit doesn’t mean there isn’t some program-changing talent still out there. Talent is beyond abundant in this game. We witnessed Loyola of Chicago somehow march to a March Final Four. It takes some committed stars who will stay that final third and fourth season before bolting to Europe or the NBA. It takes some grit…and, yes, some damn fine shooters.

      It’s not getting any easier to compete with the pedigree and the cheats…but there are still formulas to make some noise when it counts most. And there is still a thing called simply enjoying the game of basketball. I enjoy what Archie is ATTEMPTING to teach…though he may ultimately never breakthrough or get through to some players, some recruits…and some fans who want it all now. We live in an “all now” world. Enjoy the game. Enjoy it in a way you’d cheer your small high school team going up against a Goliath in a regional ….Know that a few plays can change an outcome. Know there is always a Scott Skiles or a Mac McClung out there just itching and diving for every loose ball to prove every doubter wrong.
      It’s a beautiful game where five guys playing together can still take down five prima donnas playing selfishly. It may not be as simple, but there is still much beauty in this game to embrace.
      Archie brings us back to our roots. There is nothing shameful in losing when you’re busting your butt. There’s more shame in jumping from team to team to turn yourself into a winner. There is very little innocence left in what was once a pretty awesome team sport. It’s been turned into golf at most levels…It’s been saturated with singular names and who’s who on recruiting lists. It used to be about teams. It used to be about love for community those teams represented. Archie is a dying breed. I shall die with him…before embracing the sh**show in which the game is heading.

      1. Since I’m in sort of a rambling(one of those) moods…Hee-hee. What else is new? May I add one more rather positive/more uplifting observation?

        I think we’re in very a fortunate time with BigTen basketball right now….Some of the most inventive and sort of “old school” (though not old in age) teachers of basketball are infiltrating the league. Brad Underwood, Archie Miller, Pat Chambers, Richard Pitino, Steve Pikiell, Chris Collins…and, recently hired, Juwan Howard.
        Nice to see Chambers finally getting some accolades. His road isn’t quite as heralded and new, but he’s a teacher at heart and he promotes unselfish, team basketball. Penn State will give everyone fits this year.

        Anyway, I’ll hope for the best…for basketball. Indiana will be fine. Have a glass of wine. Enjoy the game Saturday. Enjoy being an underdog. Hope SkyBox Skjodt Machine Hall still has a bit of noise to make. Win or lose, it’s the love of the game, you shall not allow them to take.
        It’s basketball I’m forever worried about. But when I see some of these great teachers and role models for the new influx of kids throughout the league, some hope is renewed.

        LET’S KICK SOME BUCKEYE BUTT! GO HOOSIERS!

  29. I understand it was a completely different era but does Knight have one championships banner if he’s coaching in this far different backdrop of college players getting shoe deals and money under the table and the sort of money luring guys to the NBA?
    You are no longer just competing against the program up the road a hundred miles. You(as a coach) are getting pushed and pulled in a myriad of different directions. Your rosters are in constant upheaval. Loyalties to programs and the landscape has roster-busting influences like never before.
    Isiah Thomas never stays for two seasons in this world. Quinn Buckner is testing NBA waters after playing a few minutes at a 73 Final Four. Benson is a pro by sophomore season. May? Wilkerson? Cheaney? Goodbye. All going into the draft barely wet behind their Hoosier ears.
    Does Knight’s coaching genius enable him to withstand the disruptions and roster annihilation so many face today in attempting to make names for themselves face at programs always fighting to be relevant? Could Knight reload the talent fast enough? Could his coaching aptitude still make it work in this environment? Could he ever kiss so much ass of 18-year-olds bigger and more advertised than the coach the moment they walk on campus?

    Talk is cheap, folks. There’s more luck than ever these days. There’s more cheats than ever not getting penalized by a corrupt and inept NCAA. There’s more prima donnas than ever. A coaching change/disruption has far greater detrimental impact because the outside variables and influences on recruits are also beyond disrupting. The one-and-done and narcissism built into the game is killing the game….And if it’s not killing the game, it’s a disrupting factor that makes resets(programs and coaching resets) far more difficult than in 1971…’81….’91…or 2001.

    I have no real hope that anything changes for the better for college basketball. Archie is just another round no-name peg not fitting into a square hole built for a few square pegs.
    The college game eats up the good professors of basketball who simply want to teach and love the game of basketball. It would eat up Bob Knight as well. Feel fortunate if you got to witness the days of those banners hanging above McCracken when it actually meant something of unselfish team pursuits, respecting a coach and embracing being taught.

    1. 1) Probably a coincidence but my sign in required me to enter the letters ‘FUHH’. Really. 2) 2021 starts allowing kids to skip straight to NBA and enhanced ‘G’ League ? 3) I’ve found my B/P is controlled better by recording the IU games. Next day I check the results and either watch the recording or delete. Works for me. Exception the IU Women – They have been playing real basketball.

      1. As long as Dakich isn’t working the game for ESPN…or Stephen Bardo for BTN, then my blood pressure is mostly maintained. Seth Davis comes in a close 3rd. All are Indiana haters…

  30. I keep you boys on your toes….

    ROCK really has the best perspective on here. He loves the game of basketball. It’s really not that complicated.

  31. Ron ..I saw a stat about entering the NBA early; It was 175 early entries and NBA had only 65 openings. Now the stat didn’t say if the 175 was American BBall players only or if the number also included international players. If it doesn’t include international players , the odds of an American Ballplayer making NBA just goes lower.

    1. Just expand the NBA to serve the increasing pool of applicants so all the prima donnas with no desire for education are kept as far away from the college game as possible.
      Three possible immediate expansions? I would have an Instagram NBA team, Twitter NBA team ..and a Facebook NBA team. e.g. The Tulsa Tweeters…? The Fresno Face-timers…? The Inglewood Instagrammers..?

  32. Come on, think! Your good points were neutralized when you wrote, “but the truth of the matter is TLC left the program in nearly as bad of shape as what he inherited. ” That’s ridiculous. It’s not even close. Crean literally had one scholarship player when he arrived on campus. The two situations were miles apart. Having Morgan, Johnson and Hartman on the team made Archie’s first roster 1,000% better than the mess Crean inherited.

    With the exception of TJD, no IU player signed by Archie comes close to being as productive as Crean’s best IU recruits. No point guard comes close to being as good as Yogi. No shooting guard comes close to being as good as Hulls or Blackmon. TJD may be as good as Anunoby, Morgon or Watford, but we probably won’t get to find out before he enters the NBA. No center on Archie’s radar will come close to being as productive as Zeller or Bryant. And let’s not forget about Vonleh. And I doubt we’ll ever see Archie sign a better athlete or more valuable player than Oladipo. How we forget about Maurice Creek and how his terrible injury cost him his career or how Anunoby’s leg injury doomed IU’s season. You guys let me know the next time IU has a roster that equals Sheehey, Hulls, Watford, Creek, Oladipo, Ferrell and Zeller with guys like Hollowell coming off the bench. Crean may not have made the most out of his talent, but he could recruit.

    TCDS obviously causes amnesia.

    1. Okay Po,
      This is the roster CAM inherited from TLC, please tell me what could have been done with the personnel left to him for the ’17-18 season? Don’t forget all this year’s upperclassmen were just Freshmen and Sophomores that year?

      Al Durham, Josh Newkirk, Justin Smith, Robert Johnson, Quentin Taylor, Johnny Jager, Devonte Green, Ethan Lasko, Juwan Morgan, Zach McRoberts, De’ron Davis, Freddie McSwain, Clifton Moore, Vijay Blackmon, Race Thompson, Collin Hartman, Tim Priller

      Don’t forget Hartman and Davis struggled with injuries most of the year and Race was red-shirted.
      Please tell me who is going to make a tournament team out of the remaining roster? CAM was lucky to win what he did with it. I don’t think it is TCDS amnesia on my part, but rather I’m pointing our what too many wearing the crimson colored glasses fail to see concerning the current state of IUBB and how we got here. There is no way CAM can do anything until he clears out the remnants of TLC’s failed recruiting near the end of his tenure and replace with his own people.

      Add to all this, after replacing the departing members of ’17-18 team with a very good recruiting class, we find it decimated by injuries in the ’18-19 season. Injuries which linger even into the ’19-20 season, but it all started with this roster which CAM inherited from TLC.

  33. I termed our team “bipolar” earlier this week. I think the whole league is bipolar. Bad games & dry spells during games are made by bad shooting for EVERY team. MD couldn’t hit anything & Iowa drubbed them. MI didn’t hit much & Purdue almost beat them. That one turned into Simpson vs. Williams (somehow?). IL hit shots & was able to beat WI who was blaming their D afterwards. They didn’t play bad D, IL just hit some really clutch shots.

    I think the new 3 Pt line causes this inconsistency. I’d like to see the stat on home court 3 pt shooting vs. road in this league. With the new line, that makes a big difference. Again, the game is beautiful when shots fall. The key is to get, take & hit good shots. If you don’t you suck some nights. If you do some nights, you can beat anyone. Any team in this league can get hot anywhere & win on any night. And here we are 2-2 & 12-3 overall & yet there is discord.

    I was shocked last yr in the NBA playoffs how much offense was coming from the 3. It was ~ 45%! That is crazy to me! Teams are shooting 30 – 40 threes / game! I despise watching it. Dribbling, standing around, chucking up garbage. It is an era where that gets you in the MVP discussion. Look no further than James Harden. To me his game sucks & he’s terrible. But he can do all 3 of those things. I digress…. Green can do all of those things too. He’s more NBA-ready than Romeo ever was.

    It is just an ugly era, to me, and the quality has indeed eroded, as H4H points out. I think the points made above about Crean losing so many good players to the NBA is very intriguing. He didn’t make it to a Final Four because so many players left early. That IS at least partially true. But he’s the same dude who recruited & signed those same kids. And he found some good ones that weren’t on the radar like OG, Olidipo & Morgan. Those kids developed & so did several others. But as a coach you have to live & die by your choices in recruits. You’re your own worst enemy. Frankly, I appreciated Crean & what he did. He did it the right way. I just didn’t care for his style of play that tried to mirror the NBA.

    I still think you can win with 3 & 4 yr. players. It isn’t sexy, but it can be done. In last year’s Final Four there were 0 one-&-done players. I love that. Experience still wins in college. I just hope we avoid the 1 yr guys & get enough talent to develop & win over 3 – 4 yrs. Get enough of those guys & they can instill the culture, knowledge & development to the newbies. We don’t have upper class players with that DNA yet. Archie’s tenure at IU will be directly proportional to the quality of defense played by his teams. He’s a throwback, you’re right again H4H, & I like it. I don’t want an NBA coach because the game sucks there. I simply hate that style of play.

    On another note, I am disturbed by graduates of prestigious universities (s.a. Duke) who embrace the 1 & dones who are there purposely devaluing their own degree. They only have to go to class for 1 semester to be eligible! Pathetic that this is allowed.

    I think TJD stays another year because he needs to develop an outside mid-range jumper. He’s purely a paint player & he’ll get eaten alive in the NBA before he gets enough skill to emerge as a star. I hope for his sake, and ours, that his dad can be open & honest enough to know that he needs more time.

    1. Wow AW you said a mouthful. Particularly punctuated by the fact the 3 point line has been pushed out farther. Enter IU, already a low tier ‘3’ % shooting team gets the added benefit of challenging from increased distance to raise that shooting %. Never been mentioned before on here this year. Also our thoughts are bonded on the NBA topic. I wouldn’t watch the NBA for a $k boy a game, every game, even the playoffs. I have no doubt in the future a shot made in the NBA from beyond the 10 second line will be scored as 7 points. YIPPEE! Giddy up!!

  34. AW in Arizona- I wonder if the entire Big10 league (or all of college ball) is witnessing a sizable drop in 3-pt proficiency due to the moving of the line?
    Has anyone looked into those numbers? It’s also increased turnovers …I don’t know how many times I’ve seen guys stepping out of bounds in the corners while trying to set-up behind the arc. And being overly concerned with stepping out of bounds can’t help concentration on those shots as well…

    I wonder how some of our teams before Archie would have fared with the new distance? Changes the old ‘drive and kick it out’ too….because the ‘kick’ takes extra time to get to the target. Defense should be able to collapse on a shooter (tenths of a second can be momentous in those small opportunities)…Deep shots get more contested…or partially contested with a longer pass in a ‘drive and kick’ …or penetrate and kick scenario?

    One would think a deeper 3-pt line would mean better looks, but not necessarily. Added distance gets some guys out of their comfortable range but this biggest factor may be more time for a defender close-out. In the NBA it doesn’t matter because nobody team defends….and, of course, you’re talking guys with great range.

    1. ESPN posted on the broadcast last Mon. Night that the 3 pt % has decreased to 33.3% from 33.9% last yr. But my premise is based on home vs. away %. They didn’t publish that stat.

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