IU loses again on the road, 89-65 at UM

ANN ARBOR, Mich. — It was another loss on the road for Indiana, but the frustrations Archie Miller expressed had less to do with one trend than another.

“It’s not that you lose, it’s how you lose,” Miller said. “And we got completely dominated today.”

Once again, the Hoosiers didn’t just lose on the road. In an 89-65 defeat at Michigan’s Crisler Arena, they were almost noncompetitive.

“Nonexistent” was the term IU’s third-year coach used multiple times as he described his team’s sixth road loss in seven Big Ten trips. Especially defensively, the Hoosiers were rarely in the way, as the Wolverines shot 57.4 percent from the floor. On the boards, IU had its worst performance of the season, outpaced 37-21.

Miller didn’t have too difficult a time finding a common factor in the Hoosiers’ woes on the road.

“I would say competitive is the word. Plain and simple,” Miller said. “If you play in Assembly Hall, the emotion, the energy level in that building … you go on the road, you are all you got.

“You have to find a way to be really good at what you do. That’s when you hold yourself accountable for your belief in what you do. At some point in time, when that belief goes away, you can see it right away.”

It’s a continuation of a disturbing trend as the Hoosiers head toward the homestretch of this season. In the days leading up to a home win over No. 21 Iowa, Miller was still left with questions about his team’s mental toughness. IU (16-9, 6-8 Big Ten) had repeatedly shrunk in difficult moments.

Before leaving for the road, the Hoosiers puffed their chests in a dominating win over a shorthanded Hawkeyes squad. Only when they left Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall and ventured to Ann Arbor, their best selves did not follow.

Michigan (16-9, 7-7) stretched the Hoosier defense thin with its myriad of perimeter shooters, and IU’s guards weren’t able to exert enough pressure on the ball to keep the Wolverines out of the paint. More than once, Michigan’s bigs were able to roll to the rim, unchecked.

“We gotta be better,” junior guard Al Durham said. “We gotta be better on the ball, we gotta be better communicating, we have to be better all around. I’ll take personal blame on that. I feel like I can be better on the ball.”

IU was particular poor in the second half. Down just five points after Joey Brunk scored the opening basket, Michigan went on to hit seven of its next eight shots, speeding toward a 62-42 edge. IU missed nine of 11 shots during that stretch, including paint touches from short-range.

It was another example of the Hoosiers’ tent folding in the second half, reminiscent of Maryland early in the conference season. Or even Penn State just a couple of weeks ago. It’s a repetition that worries Miller, who would like to see more resilience at this point in the year.

De’Ron Davis, who led the Hoosiers with 18 points, tying a program record with nine shots without a miss, was one of the few who played effectively on the offensive end. After the game, he was asked if this team has enough fight to hold on, with the Hoosiers’ NCAA tournament hopes up in the air and three of their next four games on the road.

“Definitely. Yeah,” Davis said. “We have to stay together and stay tight. We just have to handle business and we’ll figure it out. Every team goes through their ups and downs and we are going through ours.”

Durham added 17 points for the Hoosiers, but he was the only other player in cream and crimson to reach double figures. Aside from Davis and Durham (15-of-19), the rest of IU’s roster (13-of-46) hit just 28.2 percent from the field.

Freshman Trayce Jackson-Davis didn’t score his first points until four minutes into the second half, on just his second shot attempt. He finished just 2-of-3 from the field.

Much will have to improve when the Hoosiers travel to Minnesota on Wednesday, and Miller started with IU’s minus-16 on the boards.

“Without being sarcastic, we failed today,” Miller said. “Our ability to rebound the ball is something, when we have that in check, we are effective. Make no mistake, it’s the most vital thing we have if you look at the stat sheet.”

It’s very clear what has to be different for this IU team to have a chance in road environments like these.

If the Hoosiers want to make the ultimate stage, the NCAA tournament, Miller has an equally simple message.

“It’s about finding a way to get wins, period,” Miller said. “Get as many as you can. At the end of the day, you look back on your resume and they will tell you if you are in or not. But you don’t beg your way in. You earn it.”


  1. OK! Now THAT was fun!! (not)

    The Announcer said our Coach called Joey Brunk “soft”. No. Not good. No Team-building is going to happen this season.

    Let’s look to the future of this:
    Minnesota (at Minnesota)
    Penn State (at HOME!!! tickets will be cheap)
    Purdue (at Purdue)
    Illinois (at Illinois)
    Minnesota (at home)
    Wisconsin (at home)


    1. We are just about meeting the pre-season projection. 10th Place in the conference and an NIT bid.

  2. Bad enough Michigan owns IU in FB, now they own us in BB as well. 12th place in B10. Unacceptable Miller!

  3. Let’s face it fellow posters, WE want to go to the tournament more than this team does. We’re 25 games in & the song remains the same. It’s maddening because the talent & potential are there. But the WILL isn’t.

  4. The talent is not there. The effort is not there. The coaching is not there. I am starting to be convinced Archie is not the answer. How does your best player rarely touch the ball? When DD is your best player on the floor, you know your season has gone to hell.

  5. What I saw in this game is exactly as I expected. There is indeed an upperclassmen leadership issue on this team, but it more than just in terms of what we might think. We all remember the speculation as to where the scoring might come from with JM & RL departing. It was thought it would have to come from DG and maybe others. True enough, when DG is on, there is scoring in abundance, but when he is off there are big problems.

    This is why I said that IUBB hopes this year, as with last year, rode upon the shoulders of JH. Unfortunately for CAM and IUBB, he is not back to form yet, and I am not sure if he can come back at this point. I don’t think this problem is something coaching can fix, you either have the talent on board or you don’t. I believe CAM thought he had that problem on the mend with his own first recruiting class, but things went terribly wrong with last year’s catastrophic health issues which are still with the team even into this year.

    Yes, help in on the way next year, but this doesn’t fix overnight. Upperclassmen leadership is more than just emotional for a team, it is also leadership on the court and that is in short supply. There is not much way any coach can fix what ails this team right now other than tough it out until all the pieces are in place. Yes, you can do it with smoke and mirrors, but that will only last for a little while, we saw that with TLC. You have to have the right pieces and those are harder to come by when you have everything blow up on you as it did last year.

    Right now what IUBB needs is a consistent go to player(s) who can deliver in the clutch and IUBB does not have that individual on the roster at this point. I don’t think it is a character issue with any of the upperclassmen as much as it is they just don’t possess that particular skill set. Several of the underclassmen can develop into that role, but as I said, it will take time. There is a bright spot on the horizon as both Leal and Galloway have shown those traits in their final HS years. Don’t know enough about Geronimo to say. As for whether or not these traits will transfer to college for the incoming freshmen, it is yet to be determined.

  6. Georgetown has had guys kicked off the team, they are with multiple injuries (McClung and another starter sidelined) and still managed to go into Hinkle and down a #19 Butler team.

    Excuses get old…Watch Georgetown. Watch a coach who makes it about next man up and gets effort out of every one of his players. I believe Ewing called his boys “junkyard dogs” in their win against Butler. Our team is soft…I’m beginning to think they are soft because they are a reflection of the coach. Hate to believe that…but the buck must stop with the coach.

    The effort our team is a joke. I never saw so many uncontested drives and uncontested 3-pt shots. Never saw so many occasions where we were caught sleeping on backdoor cuts. Not to mention we were obliterated on the boards.

    I’ll admit I was wrong about Brunk…Thought he was on an upward projection that would continue. He has seemed to hit a ceiling. He just wasn’t fast enough for Michigan’s athleticism.

    And that Michigan team some on here were calling average only a week ago…? I don’t see any reason Michigan couldn’t be playing at a Final Four. They have a nifty point guard….They are pretty fortified inside …and have some very strong wings/forwards who can shoot the long ball.

    We are a disaster….and excuses aren’t going to cut it anymore.

  7. A 67 degree and sunny Sunday. Hmmm. Should I watch Indiana in another road game, or head out take in the great outdoors?

    I chose wisely. I can’t stand watching this team. I hate watching quit. I knew they wouldn’t show up today and they didn’t.

    Michigan is not a very good team. They don’t rebound very well at all. Yet we got outrebounded by 16. I don’t have to watch the game to know that’s quit.

  8. This team wasn’t even competitive today. This is disgraceful.

    Not too many posters defending Archie today. I mean, how can you defend today’s performance? What excuses can be applied to the train wreck that occurred today?

  9. TJD was absent, Brunk acted like he was my age (a 70 y/o man)the guards were 2 steps behind on defense. As far as Inside-Out like at home… TJD acted like he needed directions to find the lane. Brunk acted like he never seen a basketball before. Archie’s message hasn’t changed all year hence the performance from last game at home, but this team acts like they have ADD and should be playing in a disability league and NOT the Big10. How do you get kids to Focus and concentrate on basketball when Teachers have been asking THAT question FOR YEARS. Management Class will tell you to Praise in public and punish in private. Archie needs to get some attention by kicking butt as they come off the court. When the TV audience sees the mistakes being made they Support a coach that calls out those mistakes; whether turnovers, loss of focus defensively, “looking lost on a basketball court” Pull them off the court Archie and read them the riot act IN PUBLIC. If they cant take the PUBLIC dressing down…they aren’t or wont listen to it in private.

  10. Questions, is CM and his assistant coaches capable of making the necessary corrections to IU men’s basketball program for this season and the future seasons remaining on his and their contracts? Is CM able to coach in the more demanding major conference, like the Big Ten? Does the IU Athletic. department need to spend it’s money to get home games for the NIT this season? Will the IU donors continue to pour money into the IU men’s basketball program for the same results as the past four years?

  11. For the Crean Supporters OR the Archie haters..you may find this VERY interesting…from KENPOM..the 10 biggest underperforming teams of 2020. Preseason KenPom Ranking: No. 55
    Current KenPom Ranking: No. 106
    What Went Wrong?
    First and foremost, the senior leadership has been lacking. Both Tyree Crump and Jordan Harris have played worse and are making less of an overall impact than last season. And on a roster that is otherwise one of the least experienced in the nation, that is not a great starting point.
    Equally troubling, no one on the team can consistently shoot threes. Anthony Edwards certainly attempts a ton (7.5 per game), but he only makes 30.2 percent. In fact, the only Bulldog converting at a clip greater than 33.3 percent is 10th-leading scorer Christian Brown, who is 6-of-16 (37.5 percent) on the year. As a whole, they are shooting 29.9 percent from distance.
    That inability to hit threes becomes an even bigger issue when taken in conjunction with Georgia’s lackluster defense. The Bulldogs have allowed 82.2 points in their 13 losses, and it’s darn near impossible to keep pace with the necessary 83 points when you don’t make threes and aren’t great at anything in particular.
    On the plus side for second-year head coach Tom Crean, Georgia has already won more games (12) than last year (11) and its star player might be the No. 1 pick in the 2020 NBA draft. However, this Edwards-led freshman class that was ranked 11th overall by 247Sports’ composite hasn’t provided nearly the transformation that was expected. Notice he has same problem he had at Indiana …”DEFENSE” and also shooting .

  12. Remember how simple it was to win six straight at the beginning of the season? Man, we looked like world beaters…

    All we need now is six straight again. Piece of cake now ….just like a piece of cupcakes to defeat Western Illinois, Portland State, North Alabama, Troy, Princeton and Louisiana Tech (they’re almost as tough as LSU).
    Here’s a scary thought…Just think what our record looks like without the cupcakes and one signature home wins against a team that really hadn’t caught their stride(Florida St)? Just think if we don’t win the overtime game against Nebraska at home ….(our second BigTen win after getting destroyed by Wisconsin in Madison in the same fashion Michigan destroyed us yesterday)?

    Mostly narrow BigTen wins at home….Mostly getting blown out on the road. There’s really no evidence we’re even an average team. And there’s really been little improvement during the course of the season…(outside of some moments from Jerome Hunter).

    This team plateaued early….and has, possibly, even regressed. None of it is a very good reflection upon the ability of Archie Miller. Without the slew of cupcakes in the early season, we likely be a sub .500 team in overall record.

    Even if we somehow get an unwarranted gift by receiving an NCAA invite, does it really matter? We are a first-round exit in the NCAA tournament….possibly even blown out by mid-major. How does getting blown out by a mid-major help recruiting?

    All we have to do is win six straight. If it was so simple early in the season, it should be a cakewalk now. Sadly, this bunch can’t play well for six minutes straight against REAL competition. Wasn’t somebody talking about “keeping it real” midway through the season? Well, we are certainly keeping it real now.

  13. There’s only one poster here and, along with a spurned radio host, they make up the only people in the world who still have praise for Tom Crean. His firing was long overdue. They may not have gotten his replacement right, but the move had to be made.

    1. Even a powerhouse football school will tire of Crean real fast.

      I must say, the comedic material was far more vast with Crean. His quirky behavior, weird tweets to Joyce Meyer, public affirmations of locker room prayers, postgame body slams of Jeff Meyer, over-the-top facial reactions, pacing, spastic hopping, press conference gibberish, Dasani bottle tricks and vast amounts of promotion gimmicks/slogans….offered endless amounts of comic relief.
      Although clueless in X’s and O’s, he was a treasure trove for a good laugh.

      I think this hurts more with Archie…Here’s a guy we thought had the the X’s and O’s but he still can’t cure the broken roster dysfunction(especially watching the aloof attitudes of some Crean holdovers) . Atop such continued pain from many the same poor player attitudes sabotaging the previous decade, we now don’t have any comic relief.

      Dear John Beilein,

      How are things in Cleveland?

  14. Yep, firing Crean 12 months after he lead IU to win its second Outright Big Ten Championship (in four seasons) and lead his team to the Sweet 16 for the third time in five seasons “was long overdue.” IU should have fired Crean the week after IU finished the 2015/2016 season at 27 – 8 and Crean was honored as Big Ten Coach of the Year.

  15. I am a huge Joey Brunk fan. I think he’s helped our University a lot by playing hard, and playing the right way. He’s never taken a cheap shot at anyone and has not trash-talked. He’s a class act and I can root for him. I know that early on I stated that he’d have problems scoring in the Big Ten after team’s scouted him. That is a strategic analysis but not a denigration. I don’t like Archie Miller calling him “soft”, or, for that matter, calling anyone on our team “soft”. That is NOT the way to reach people.

    It’s wrong for Archie Miller to think that he can hide behind Bob Knight’s legacy of (effective) abuse of players here at Indiana University.

    Take a look at EVERY other Coach in the Big Ten. They are ALL nurturing relationships with their players, and their players improve from year to year.

    Can we take a look at ANY player on our team who has improved this year? (and please don’t reference Jerome Hunter, who felt compelled to trash talk a former walk-on at Iowa. That act in and of itself shows that Jerome has not improved during his time here at Indiana University).

    I’ve written this before, but it’s difficult and even impossible to cheer for this team.

    I USED to think that they dis-liked each other, they sure acted like it, but I think that hatred has been supplanted with a visual dis-like of their Coach.

    It’s a train wreck. And it’s fascinating to watch a train wreck.

    On to Minnesota!

  16. I agree with nearly all of that, Rock. You are spot-on. And I don’t think Brunk is soft. I think Brunk is caught in the politics of a dysfunctional roster where ‘big man on campus’ rules the day more than heart on the court.

    Archie has failed in being tough via example and accountability. You are correct. There are plenty of ways for a coach to get tough without verbally berating anyone.

    Is there a link to where Archie called Brunk “soft?” Was it with Don Fischer in the postgame interview …or at the official IU postgame presser?
    I’m very surprised that Archie would single Brunk out like that.

    I really think Archie is failing to identify the root causes of the aloof mannerisms in his team. Or, maybe he identifies them just fine but is not willing to make the hard decisions to truly take the needed corrective actions.

    I wish I had the solutions….I think I’d be playing some walk-on’s about right now with Durham, Smith and Jackson-Davis being my primary minutes takers. Durham, Smith and Jackson-Davis always seem to be giving the best effort game in and game out. Sure, they get lost on defense and make mistakes, but the effort is there. They also seem to play with the most maturity. They don’t overly celebrate when they make good plays….and they don’t seem to have a need to prove their manhood on a basketball court (by cocking elbows, waving fingers in faces, etc).

    Good post, Rock….Very good post. It’s not a good thing when it’s difficult to cheer for your own team. Most of that has to be on the coach. Maturity and accountability begins with Archie.

  17. The Hoosier Sports Report is a fascinating study in the intractability of the human brain, with some of the most frequent commenters.

    There’s little discussion. It’s just a handful of folks talking AT each other; the same regurgitated things everyone has been saying for years and the only thing that remains the same is that Indiana basketball is mired in mediocrity. Our opinions don’t matter at all. Our passion for Hoosier sports is all something we all share, but the comments are this endless cycle of us saying the same things over and over again.

    There are other places to have these discussions where people are actually open to talking through things and seeing nuance. Fixing Indiana basketball isn’t going to be easy. No one can go back to 1976, reanimate Bob Knight and bring him back to 2020.

    On the other side, any serious basketball person knew that Crean had a ceiling which he reached with us. And it is more than just “Big Ten Championships” in the weakest year in the history of the league. The trajectory of the program was declining, bridges were burned in state and then Crean was alienating people within the Athletic Dept. He was flailing by grabbing transfers haphazardly, and had a throw it against the wall and hope it sticks approach to recruiting. He mostly failed, although he had some successes. But this approach leads to uneven results. This is not how to build a competitive and sustainable program.

    Winning Championships and building a perennial winner is really difficult. MOST coaches are going to fail at this. Mike Davis failed. Sampson didn’t get out of the gate. Crean failed. I have grave concerns whether Archie can do it. But he’s failing for different reasons that Crean failed.

    What’s Archie’s problem(s)? Here’s where more “discussion” would be fun and enlightening, versus rehashing the same recycled arguments over and over. There are a lot of folks around here who really know basketball. A heck of a lot better than I do. What’s happening in year 3 where we have the same issues as last year and the year before? There’s no way it’s as simple as “well because Crean’s recruits suck.” Absolutely that’s a factor, but it isn’t the entire picture. There’s nuance here and it would be great to get into that instead of rehashing the same old emotional baggage again and again and again.

    1. My nuance is the destruction of college ball hurting Indiana in more ways some programs which have been able to maintain a truly high level of superstar recruiting.

      I’m not sure Archie can be the “everything to everybody” man a coach needs to be in such an environment where stardom awaiting and stardom connections pull at the hearts and strings of every recruit and every parent of every recruit.
      The importance of the name on the jersey is on the backburner…or in the backseat, if you will. College as motivator …personal relationships with a teacher/coach/instructor as a motivator…and banners as a motivator …and relationships with college teammates as a motivator just don’t take the wheel and drive the car anymore.

      Some coaches have turned to Jesus to fight against the narcissistic influences upon the prima donna brain. But in general, the major ‘nuance’ is we have an outdated coach for this day. Archie doesn’t exist as a coach to give the NBA promises and NBA pep talks many want to hear. He has this delusion that college basketball should still matter to a talented individual. And now he deals with a roster that is separated by a few who still care about what it takes to put together a winning college team versus a larger majority simply punching their time clock …because the glory is in the mirror and what “one” can do with their individual talent.

      The collective simply doesn’t matter in the “me” world of basketball….Indiana has little depth in meaning to most who don the jersey.

      At the end of the day, I’d rather sink on the ship with Archie and his delusion that college basketball still reigns supreme. I’ll sink to the bottom with Archie rather than fawn over a kid that was here long enough for a 30 minute highlight reel and the clever way his name rolls off the tongue in a moronic chant.

      1. ^^^ Amen! I agree & would rather have an X’s & O’s guy like Archie & die doing it.

        Can anyone imagine what the Penn St. message boards must’ve been spewing the last few years? What do you think they’re saying this year? And why?

        1. If the NBA had a college basketball trophy wife, I’m pretty sure we all know it wouldn’t be the ‘Mop Lady.’

          Question: Does the ‘Mop Lady’ have a reserved spot in the Assembly Skjodt Hall sky boxes? Is she served a dirty ‘Mop Lady’ martini with a dirty mop strand drooped over the side of the glass? Mop Lady hors d’oeuvres on maple planks? Mop Lady biscuit bites? Mop Lady gift baskets with Mary Kay cosmetics in all the latest mop colors for all the ladies?

          I sure hope the Mop Lady is a valued member of the Sky Box Society.

  18. I basically blame the NBA….We have one player with an NBA father…We have another with an NBA brother. We had a previous coach who did all his Galileo recruiting moves based on the athleticism it took to play in the NBA (b-ball IQ and mental toughness were was down the rung). We had a kid from New Albany labeled as a program saver bolt for the NBA prematurely.

    NBA is on the brain at every turn. It’s to impress others because daddy played in the NBA…or my bro is playing in the NBA…or my last coach recruited me because my trapeze acts above the rim could punch my ticket for the NBA….etc, etc.

    What we are witnessing at Indiana is a college coach’s inability to make college basketball about college basketball. It’s been that way for last 12 years at Indiana. We are poor man’s version of UK …We are the mini NBA camp where a connection gets you in the door. Crean’s connection to D-Wade got him in the door. Doc Rivers’ connection to Crean got Jeremiah Rivers in the door….Crean’s trademark for finding dark horse NBA products got a bunch of A-Hope toe-trippers in our door. Dale Davis gets Trayce in the door. Crean gets Devonte in the door because it keeps his standing with other NBA connections on good terms.

    Our banners have long ago been relegated to the back seat. They and the name “Indiana” of are little importance. Banners and ‘Indiana’ have no love connection to the NBA…Indiana is merely a necessary stepping stone. Many on our team play with the NBA tattoo branded upon their purpose. They have the athleticism swag…or the family swag…or they can say they were identified by Galileo as most likely to NBA succeed after 2 to 3 years of aloof college behavior.

    Yes, I blame the NBA. This isn’t just about draft night. I can live with draft night…But when the NBA is on the brain from coach to recruit…from brother to brother…from to father to son…..from awaited town parades and high school announcement to -year college retirement with zero Hoosier heroics as a one-and-done?

    I know why we’re lost. Look at the roster and where the heart resides? The hearts do not reside with Indiana. The hearts of many our players are as far removed from ‘Indiana’ as their everyday thoughts stuck upon their own talent and their own prospect of playing beyond the time they are forced to endure in Bloomington.

    The NBA virus attacks the college ball peach basket like a coronavirus on a cruise ship. NBA = ‘No Basketball Anymore” = you are stuck until further notice.

    Name a locker room after some kids who made it to the next level…Bring back Oladipo to games so we can chant the chant. Indiana? Who? Banners? What?
    Dude, it’s about the NBA. That other stuff is old history….Nobody goes to college for any other reason than to sport their swag for the next level. Get with the times, old man.

  19. A very profound statement H4H,

    “What we are witnessing at Indiana is a college coach’s inability to make college basketball about college basketball.” Keep doing this and you will lose your status as the HSN court Jester!!!

    I also love your comments on the other thread that you’ll sink with Archie trying to make it about college basketball despite the odds. I think the kids CAM has recruited himself thus far reflect your statement to the T (no pun intended t), in his attempt to make it about college basketball again at Indiana. I don’t know enough about Geronimo, but no doubt, the recruiting of both Leal and Galloway reflect this same philosophy. There was one thing I could not shake when reading you posts and I’m sure you will agree.

    It is not just the nba which has hurt the traditional mystic of IUBB, but the way basketball has been handled in the state of Indiana. The loss of an overall HS tournament probably has done more damage to Hoosier basketball than anything I can think of. You just can’t replicate that type of atmosphere in any other forum than an overall state championship tournament. By the time your best Indiana High School players arrived to college they had already been tested in one of the toughest tournament pressure cookers one could image.

    How could anything else get under their collective skins than the finals at Hinkle in the heyday of the real Hoosier Hysteria? I can’t think of any college venue which could have been more intimidating than the Indiana single class tournament. Going through the gauntlet of those sectionals playing win or lose against bitter local rivals. Then the regional followed by the semi-state, and if you managed to get through all that, you were up against 3 other teams just as fire tested as you had been.

    It doesn’t get any better than this. So why did the state of Indiana have to go and mess up the greatest tradition in all of High School basketball?

  20. Harv, thank you for all your insight.

    The play was one in which a Michigan player got the offensive rebound surrounded by Brunk, #4, and someone else. The Michigan player had sealed off Brunk (who had been guarding him but Brunk had moved forward to stop a defensive foray and was sealed off).

    Archie Miller called a timeout in disgust, and the CBS Commentator (I don’t know if it was the play-by-play or the “color” commentator) said rather incredulously as it went to commercial, “Archie Miller” then something like greeted, or met “Brunk and mouthed the word ‘soft'”.

    I remember this clearly, but don’t have the tape (obviously) or I’d give you the exact time.
    Perhaps Jeremy or Jon can verify this.

    I’m of the opinion that it’s true, as I’ve watched with consternation as Archie’s body language has slipped into rather constant disgust and disdain. I recall my shock when Archie raised his hands to the sky in supplication the first time….I do not recall any recent Big Ten Coach so openly showing disgust at his player’s performance, other than Fran at Iowa who openly berated his team several years ago. I am not a Fran fan either, and for that reason. I like Coaches who can somehow establish rapport.

    I do agree that these players (and I do NOT blame them) who are massively talented are looking to get paid (either in the NBA or overseas). Someone, (I think t) has said repeatedly that ALL the players should be paid performers in NCAA Division I Basketball (and Football) and I agree with t on that as well as many other comments t’s made.

  21. Blaming the NBA for IU’s problems is like blaming the sun when you get a sunburn.

    Other coaches have found a way to improve the performance of their individual players and there teams in this age of NBA influence. Why can’t Archie seem to manage that?

    If it’s the NBA’s fault, then stop recruiting players that have realistic ambitions of playing in the NBA. Stop recruiting potential one-and-done guys or McDonalds All-Americans, regardless of where they grew up. Just recruit 3-star players who would be delighted to finish their BB career playing for IU. See how many games you can win with a roster full of that level of talent.

    I think the problem with IU these last three seasons is that we have a couple of NBA-potential guys playing with 10 guys who have no chance of playing in the NBA. The drop off between our most talented player and the other guys around him is significant. Take TJD. There is no way any of the guards he’s currently playing with ever get drafted by the NBA, and there is only a very small chance that they will improve their skill to the point where they could make an NBA roster for a year or two down the road. Brunk, if he’s as smart as I think he is, knows he has no chance of playing in the NBA.

  22. As we attempt to come up with theories why IU BB is such a train wreck, we should remember to apply Occam’s razor.

  23. I’ll say it again: Joey Brunk was very kind to come to Indiana University and help our program. Joey Brunk tries hard every game, and every play. I admire Joey Brunk a lot.

    Going to the NBA is not what I watch Big Ten Basketball for.

    1. We’ve had guys who cared about team and about Indiana…We just haven’t had enough of them. Archie is doing his damnedest to restore the faith in the jersey meaning something again…He’s attempting to restore the relationships throughout the state. He hasn’t had the freedom to be extremely discerning considering the time that has been lost and what he had to work with in terms of returning guys not of his own choice.
      I’ll forgive him for some frustrations he’s taken out on Brunk . We all try to get through to people who we believe actually care. To be hard on Brunk probably means Archie thinks Brunk cares enough to take the harsh words. I sometimes think Archie feels those words would simple fall on deaf ears with many on this team. You can’t light a fire under slushy and think passion will ignite.

      At this point, all I can do is hope. I will go down with the Archie ship because I really don’t see a lot of better alternatives. I think Archie is putting Indiana first…and, maybe even more importantly, he values the autonomy and sanctity of college basketball.

  24. Other coaches have found a way to improve the performance of their individual players and there teams in this age of NBA influence. Why can’t Archie seem to manage that?

    He did manage it at Dayton…Why do you suppose that is? Archie is following an Indiana coach who pumped just the opposite into recruits. Crean created an NBA culture more than a banner-driven culture. He may have arrived with his bullhorn to say all the right things when he said “It’s Indiana,” but it was never really about Indiana(other than slogans, witch-hunts, and DVD gimmicks). It was about wing spans and “upside”…and searching upon searching the East Coast for under the radar guys who were athletes first and seasoned basketball players second. It was always a fostering of personal relationships and “chosen one” rocket ships to stardom who could soon be the bullet highlight on his own resume. It was never about team building (see Double Down’s comments about throwing in last-minute transfers to save off disastrous experimental recruiting).
    It was never about finding the best fit to complete the lacking pieces on a team. And that’s how you end up with fill-in toe-trippers, Priller, April, etc. etc. amongst the highflier experiments with NBA tattooed on the brain. And it’s how you end up with a mishmash of holdovers who all have qualities which may someday translate very well in the NBA….but rarely to maturing in time for deep NCAA tournament runs. And it is their transferable NBA skills which remain their biggest hope more than goals as a team.

    And why do other established “elite” programs manage to win and improve with the influences of the NBA? Well, that’s simple as hell if looking at our recent history. First, they aren’t the Crean style recruit. They are more seasoned 5-star players and heavy on basketball IQ to go along with more seasoned and tested skill sets. Most elite programs working at the top of the food chain get a plethora of guys who could be one-and-done rather than have all their fortunes “hinge” on a standout sole recruit (e.g. Cody)…or experiments only heavy on athleticism.
    But let’s not act like even the best recruiters of the One-and-Done …or multiple McDonald’s All-Americans see such shotgun approaches aimed merely at ‘best talent’ works all the time….
    For all the guys Calipari has placed in the elite club of the NBA, he still only has one banner in almost ten seasons at Kentucky.
    Loyola of Chicago was in a Final Four too….I doubt too many of Sister Jean’s boys had their first and foremost goal to light it up in the NBA.

    Indiana didn’t get broken overnight. The culture to make college ball about college basketball again won’t happen overnight. I’m not sure if any of us will be patient enough to build something from its foundation rather than the easy highs of watching a traveling circus show of one highflier here…and one highflier there making us somehow believe we’re still a relevant basketball program because some under-the-radar kid from Massachusetts is playing on the Pacers…and returning to Bloomington to still be ‘big man on campus.’

  25. Pat Chambers record at Penn St. is 147-145, which includes this year’s 20-5. He was on the hot seat after last season as you may recall. PSU is #9 folks.

    Archie Miller didn’t compete for an A-10 title at Dayton until his 4th yr., when they finished 2nd. Then they won it twice before IU hired him. His career NCAA tourney record is 5-4, which I’d take right now over a 6 yr. span.

    Look up Coach K, Mark Turgeon….you will find similar early tenure struggles.

    Face it, this team lives & Dies with Green. I wish it wasn’t true. Green is off & on…mostly OFF this season. When your team depends on the undependable, this is what you get. I believe this is Archie’s biggest conundrum. If he benches Green he has far less danger on the perimeter. It’s like buying a lottery ticket. You can’t win without a ticket. At the same time, it is a bad investment. Without Green we don’t beat FSU or Iowa, two of our biggest wins.

    There is obvious confusion when Green is in the line up. Everything including offensive sets is disrupted. He doesn’t play within the offense & appears to freelance. He is clueless on the other side of the ball; that which Archie emphasizes.

    I hate to pin this on 1 guy, but I believe there is no overcoming his ego and attitude. My read is that he doesn’t care about wins. He only cares about his points & flash. And it would appear that he cannot wait until this is all over. Which pretty much seals our fate. I don’t think he feels accountable for this team because this is not what he signed up for. He signed up to run & gun & play token defense. He belongs with Crean & would’ve transferred if Crean would’ve landed a job right away.

    Our fate rests on Wed. night @ MN, who just lost at home. We have to beat them twice to even have a chance at the tournament. They are ranked above us in the NET. It is put up or shut up time. we do not belong if we ant beat this team twice.

    1. I hear you, AWinAZ….Some truly fine coaches started out slowly. But on the flip side, how many bad coaches start out like gangbusters and win fast and often?

      There is really no other model than starting out mediocre …or, simply, o.k.. So how do we tell if our patience will pay off? For every 2 or 3 newly hired coaches who start out slowly only to become legendary…or near legendary names for bringing turnarounds, deep tournament runs and conference dominance, there are hundreds who start out mediocre and leave 10 years later mediocre.

      You must be qualified…but I’m also thinking so much of this is fortune and timing. The fans rallied around Crean because the perception was ‘sold’ that Indiana Basketball had been decimated by a 3-way calling scandal. Reality? Outside of a storied deep run by a Mike Davis coached bunch of overachievers, IU Basketball had been coasting in neutral for more than 15 years before it was “burned to the ground.” But with the burning comes the fortunes of timing. A fan base gets very involved again. Young Indiana homegrown talent also saw an opportunity to rescue the program; a program their own parents realized more important when suddenly perceived as threatened and marred of its luster.
      The overblown scandal brought a form of shock treatment for IU Basketball…and it came out of its long coma of resting on laurels and gazing upon banners older than boxy televisions and the invention of cell phones. Enter Cody Zeller…Enter Jordy Hulls…Enter Yogi Ferrell. But would they have entered without the call to rescue Indiana?

      Timing is everything. But how do we find the passion again? Do we (fans and recruits) care enough on a daily basis to provide a coach with what he thought Indiana truly meant to those in this state? Or do we just return to staring at the museum cloth above McCracken, plan more reunions…and put on a theme song for a Streisand and Redford movie?

      If we were completely honest, Bob Knight likely overstayed by 15 years. Reinvention is tough for even the most legendary of programs. Reigniting passion year after year when looking at the same old face on our sideline is a tough sell to recruits. Young spark ignites young recruits. Much of that spark was wearing off Knight. With or without ‘zero tolerance,’ our relevance in March Madness had been fading and disappointing results and seasons were mounting.

      I’m not sure patience with Archie will ignite the fires again. There is no villain to play superhero against. There is no scandal to play a savior card. There is no desperation fueled by national media to wake us all up into realizing the beautiful passions in candy stripes we all took for granted far too long. High school basketball in Indiana has been watered down its March frenzy via a passion destroyed called multi-class basketball.

      In some strange way we should almost be thankful for Kelvin Sampson being so wrongfully dragged through the mud of national attention and scandal over things so relatively minor (3-way calls..along with free backpacks, and water bottles for recruits). Without Frankenstein’s monster to build the Indiana mobs and light the torches of passion again….who knows? We would have likely been still drifting in the ‘Sea of Sunken Banners’ dead of any vigor or winds to fill the sails.

      And what does taking away the storied rivalry game against UK do to the winds of passion? Where does Archie find a rallying cry? He created no villain…He didn’t take the methods of politicians and slander the previous guy who held office. He has an AD who had his heart invested in the man he had to fire. He has a disjointed roster and a splintered fan base searching again for a scapegoat to blame for our own lost passion…Did Kelvin Sampson also bring multi-class high school basketball to Indiana. Did he suggest a 1-A guard deserves just as big a trophy as 4-A guard leading a team to state title? Did Kelvin make Bobby stay 10 years too long? Did Kelvin really fail in making it about academics and basketball while a still highly regarded UNC was offering ghost classes at the same time we led Kelvin to the gallows?
      Demons and monsters don’t come along too often. And without monsters and demons, I’m not sure Indiana fans have anymore passion for basketball than staring at an i-Phone

  26. It’s over. The season is a bust. I’ll let your guys be the judge of the man who gets paid $3.5 million per year to return IU to BB glory. I look forward to IU’s FB season starting in September.

  27. If you want to change culture at men’s IU basketball program A.M. or a coach chosen for IU job should had an incentive laced contract that focuses on TEAM/FAMILY IMAGE. Not wins and losses but what do you want that image/family to look like. A gauntlet of rules and expectations laid down, a strategy/method/ way to get there and it’s my way or the highway. Straight, direct, to the point. The IU team members are just to comfortable to understand concepts needed for success. There is just not enough turnover in personnel of players (yes clean house). (A coach and staff hired for the IU job has to have ability to execute this type of plan). IU players think they do this or that but they don’t; effort, play hard, execute, listen, learn, dedication, toughness, don’t blink, focus, team, function, rebound, shoot, screen, pass, cut, play defense, care (about themselves and one another), score, understand, keep emotions in check and the list goes on and on. Where are the player transfers, dissatisfaction of not being able to play for a demanding coach by not being able to meet coach and staff expectations? Get/recruit players who will. IU program now lives by the Concepts of let’s go through the motions and look at the scoreboard to see if we won or lost game. They think they believe but they don’t. Rather, they live in Disneyland.
    As far as the coaching contract if he’s successful in changing basketball culture he becomes a coaching legend. If not he still makes a good chunk of change. A.M. and staff when he is done at IU will make a good chunk of change for maintenance of the same old losing attitude culture against good/competitive level programs for basically changing nothing and arguably regression of IU basketball program. Helter Skelter vs Not Much Enthusiasm which equals helter skelter play. In both situations especially the later all camouflaged by weak pre conference schedules and wins over the lesser level teams. IU basketball old tradition (because the new tradition is not the old tradition) is not Penn State (this is not football) as now IU basketball compares itself to programs like Penn State and other old traditional loser programs. This is just an attempt to lick IU men’s basketball wounds and make it feel better.

  28. And beating an Iowa team at home though ranked is not a great win. It is just an ok win because Iowa basketball though wins here and there some is just OK.

  29. Speaking of culture … what is the current culture established by coach Miller for the Hoosier program and is he recruiting the right players to build that culture?

    1. Oh great Swartz!

      A very interesting question which I will follow up with another. Do we have enough of a sampling of CAM’s recruiting long enough on the court yet to know?

      We have this year’s sophomores and freshmen as the sample at this point. The freshmen, represented by TJD & AF, by and large have acquitted themselves quite well by freshmen standards on a team which is not very good. The sophomores, on the other hand, are very hard to judge as the key players from this class are just now getting a fair amount of experience due to the core of this class being unable play most of last season. For all practical purposes RT and RP don’t even have a full season under their belts at this point. RP may be slightly over an actual season in number of games, but barely.

      We know that RT and RP have had their moments of good play along with JH working himself back into form. DA has been a disappointment and JF didn’t work out. As for RL, everyone knew he was a one and done. So from the recruiting standpoint, it is just too early to tell. Had the catastrophes not occurred last season, I would be much harder on CAM than I have been this year. No fair minded individual with just a little bit of basketball understanding can fail to realize just how much damage last season caused for this program.

      Where I start drawing the line will be next year, instead of where I would normally have done so this year. Hopefully there will be no further health issues on the team and there will only be 2 seniors as the remaining holdovers from the TLC era. If CAM is going to be able to turn the corner on this train wreck we will start seeing signs of that next year. If it doesn’t, I would be hard pressed to give much more time, but that will depend a lot on what he is able to recruit for the future.

      1. I don’t think Romeo did a hell of a lot for the culture….Thousands of kids lined up at his New Albany high school in anticipation of him wearing candy stripes…Did he save our culture? He was a signature Archie recruit. Maybe Archie should have been searching the state for a lesser name with some skills, some heart, and some truly invested gratitude to be asked to don the candy stripes.

        You can’t just wipe away Romeo hoopla off of Archie’s homegrown list of
        “making it about Indiana/in-state recruiting again” consuming our early expectations for Archie’s Hoosiers…You can’t just pretend that torn-up early chapter never existed.

        Culture begins with sincerity in purpose. Archie did what all coaches do…He got enamored with the talent. He found the hoopla …and he seized the hoopla. But what he didn’t land/find was true passion in a signature recruit to stay long enough to build any semblance of a team. That’s an enormous reset button….when just getting out of the recruiting gate. Again, what if Archie had located a very talented Hoosier just slightly off the radar who’s still on the team right now?

        Archie went for a big home run and he struck out. Not only did he strike out in terms of always knowing Romeo would be a one-and-done, he struck out in truly measuring his talent readiness. Romeo couldn’t shoot the ball worth a damn. That’s called a coach buying into hoopla without doing the homework.
        He knew very well this wasn’t going to be a kid who had a love affair with candy stripes or gave on iota about our waning “culture.” This wasn’t going to be a kid who would stay long enough to refine his game.

        I don’t want Archie’s head on a platter, but he’s made some choices he’s now paying for….It’s not just about injuries stymieing his plans. He bit on hoopla with Romeo…He also bit on a certain amount of overblown hype with Damezi.
        And maybe, just maybe, he put too much stock in loyalty for a kid passing on Purdue who lived in West Lafayette’s backyard? Does the dissing of Purdue create its own form of hoopla which could cloud true talent evaluation?

        It’s sort of ironic how thinkaboutit’s “saviors” of sort aren’t even from Indiana. Race Thompson is from Minnesota…and Jerome Hunter is from Ohio. I’m not even sure if we’re going to look back at Jackson-Davis as a home run after all is settled. Maybe “Mr. Basketball” isn’t what it used to be? Aren’t Mr. Basketballs” also affected by the dilution of competitiveness in Indiana high school basketball because of the multi-class system now in place? Maybe it’s a form of fools gold and another type of hoopla that shouldn’t fool a very discerning eye in the recruitment process (looking for heart and talent) needed to restore candy stripe culture?

  30. when you talk culture ..it may be a high percentage lies on the shoulders of the players. I just saw and read an article about North Carolina and Roy Williams is so frustrated with team he actually dropped the F-Bomb at post game presser. They blew a 15 point 2nd half lead to Notre Dame and talked about “no fight” in team. What he said could be applicable to MANY teams this year . I think it was H4H that talked about players coming to college looking at the “Green Backs” in their future. In fact the article hinted if the “culture” didn’t change ;Williams would retire. NOW that’s a sad statement about the players coming into college that you would DRIVE on of the Winningest Coaches into retirement because ” I don’t care ” attitude and play. That Attitude was started at home and it bleeds into the play What WE the HOOSIER NATION should do is Support CAM and show the Team we wont accept their lazy play lazy effort, lazy attitude. Their was a time when coaches could coach but seems now the Players are direction their own course and, in some cases, the coaches just get in their way.

    1. You’re hitting the nail on the head…The “culture” of college basketball is being drastically altered by an entitlement society. Archie is attempting to fix a culture within a culture…within another culture. Each passing decade the passion for sports is fading…What becomes more important is how much a fan can net on an online bet. All of ‘fast and furious’ methods to get quick money is being served as morning breakfast many a young prima donna.
      Passion? Where? Sure, there will be winners and losers (much of it based soley on talent equations and the advantages given to some programs that can still get away with offering ‘ghost classes’…or buying recruits with shoe deal contracts, or promising NBA agents who are already lined up with signed checks to take you as a client, prostitutes waiting in dorm rooms, etc, etc).
      But passion? If you want passion, watch Loyola of Chicago. Start following mid-majors….Start finding the 16 seed ….Follow Bill Coen at Northeastern.
      I haven’t seen true passion in a candy stripe uniform since Hulls. We have become the school for faux prima donnas who don’t really have enough game to be swag worthy. And Archie has recruited many who believe they’re swag worthy without earning a damn thing. Hell, most are afraid of a floor burn. We are basically two bus stops…One bus stop is for the faux prima donna. The other bus stop is for those who waste their heart and love for the game on the dysfunction brought by those already entitled when they arrive.

      There are no quick fixes for Indiana…no more than quick fixes for college basketball. College basketball is addicted to the mirror in the same fashion narcissism feeds on its need for immediate gratification in a system which destroys all humble pursuits and passions. There is no fine passionate wine awaiting an afternoon sun. There are no more misty morning valleys of grapes destined to absorb the required timeless expertise and dedicated nurturing of a process to grow vintage basketball from the veins of passion. That day is dead. Most fans at a game stare at their i-Phones more than what’s happening on the floor. They simply await a replay or a chance to re-watch big moments on the jumbotron soon to be linked up to the phone. Fickle fans are discerning connoisseurs of basketball like Boone’s Farm is to the valleys of vintage wine.

  31. *** correction….There was a time when coaches could coach, but seems now players are directing their own course and, in some cases, the coaches just get in their way.

  32. As I have said before, although I am not impressed with Miller’s coaching, I believe the true test will be how he recruits next year. I can’t believe the AD will fire Archie until Crean’s players are finished and Miller is given a shot with his own recruits. I can’t wait for a lineup without Green, Smith and DD. I haven’t a take on Franklin and Hunter yet, although I believe Durham, Phinisee, Brunk, Thompson are not starters on a very good team. So Geronimo, Leal and Galloway will need to be key contributors and in my opinion the next class after that will be the determining factor in Archie’s fate at IU.

  33. Hopeful, in theory you’re absolutely right. However, in reality, with each additional performance like we witnessed at Michigan, and each additional season in which IU fails to make it to the Tournament, the odds of Archie signing the type of players necessary to turn this program around grow longer. The best players don’t want to sign with a program perceived to be in decline. They want to play for schools where they have a chance to win big and where they will get the exposure necessary to elevate themselves in the NBA Draft.

    And judging by the performance and development of the players on this roster that Archie recruited, I don’t have a lot of faith that the next two recruiting classes will cause the program to produce significantly better results. For the 2021 class, at the very least, Archie must sign a really good big man and a really good point guard, both of whom will have to be on the level of TJD. In other words, McDonald’s All American-level talent. I think Archie is going to have a very hard time signing that level of talent.

    1. Po,
      In this new era of the nba turnstile college basketball, do we really want the best players? If the only thing they are in it for is the big payday, are we helping ourselves by recruiting such players? It may look good on the W/L side, but will we hang banners? Yes, we may need one or two top 50 caliber players, but the rest need to be in it for the long haul.

      You look at the template over the last 5 years, that’s the make up of the teams hanging banners. 3 and 4 year players supplemented by one or two top 50 players. Basically, that’s what CAM has been doing with the ’18 & ’19 recruiting classes. The ’20 class would not seem to fit that model at first glance, but there may be a sleeper among the 3 recruits. The one thing we do know is the majority of CAM recruits would appear to be 3 and 4 year players.

  34. Po,
    You are right! IU needs another big man, an athletic wing with court sense and scoring ability, and most of all a dynamic point guard in the mold of Yogi. I’m assuming Leal and Galloway can already shoot better than anyone on the current squad.

  35. “Best players” is such a damn subjective term. How many in the Zeller movement were truly “best players?” Was Etherington a “best player.” Hanner Perea…(who can forget all of that Dopirak hype?) a best player?

    Was Oladipo a “best player” upon arrival?

    Was Romeo a “best player” from Indiana? Did he bring us the “best” results we could ever dream?

    Give me the “best heart” of a true warrior. Give me a kid who wants nothing more in life than to wear the candy stripes. Give me a “best teacher” on our sideline and not a faux coach who acts like a complete clown routine while sucking the toes of his chosen prima donnas as if they’re here to restore the glory of old IU.

    Best? What in the hell does it mean anymore? I heard there are currently 79 different lottery picks on various mock draft boards. 79! Did I hear Fran Fraschilla correctly last night when he said that? Is that 79 of the “best” for 14 available ping pong balls?

    Mac McClung? How many “best” college programs were looking at his “best” game?

    Georgetown…Still my guilty pleasure. Nobody on that roster claims to be the “best” at anything. What they do is play like junkyard dogs. They bring their best effort and make the game damn fun to watch.

    I don’t necessarily care if Archie lives up to whatever zit-faced talent evaluator at Rivals believes to be the “best” on a recruiting chart about as reliable as facts found in the National Enquirer. What I do expect out of Archie is finding guys who will bring their “best effort” night in …and night out. Talent is abundant ….Much of it flies under the radar. The state of Indiana is still rich and fertile land for basketball talent. It’s a deep well that doesn’t necessarily need tapped from the top.
    But if Archie can’t get “best effort,” then he best find a different profession as far as I’m concerned.

    We have more than talent issues and disjointed rosters …We have more than future worries of finding the very subjective “best” basketball players. Our biggest current concern should be why aren’t we seeing the best effort a kid can give for 40 minutes? Why aren’t we witnessing star players doing things that are best for incoming kids and building their confidence?

    Best effort is found in our fight song….In the battle we’re tried and true. Where is our truth in best grit and best effort? The fight song says nothing about being daunted. I once believed we had the “best” fight song because it truthfully represented those who wanted to don the candy stripes. Best talent? Subjective.
    Best effort? Pretty simple to decipher in a simple b-ball IQ eye exam. Look for floor burns…Look for gasping for air…Look for putting an arm around a teammate and a pat on the back. Look for communication. Look for fire in the belly and anger in the face when losing. Don’t look for chuckles and snickering when getting your ass kicked in an NIT game at Assembly. If that’s the “best” you can give me, then it’s “best” you move on your way.

    1. Why does a guy lucky enough to don candy stripes for four years believe his senior season should be about his stat sheet? If you are truly the “best,” then you should embrace the kid who was once you. You should try to make that freshman …or sophomore have the belief you now hold in your masterful swag.

      Anyone can chuck up a shot whenever opportunity arises. But I consider a “best” Hoosier to be a savvy veteran who knows the team does not become it’s best unless he helps build the confidence and performance of the new young guns. Give me a kid who can get those with waning confidence back on track…..Then I’ll give you a so-called star you can call “best.”

  36. Now backtrack the thread, everyone. My postal delivery of my posts have arrived Pony-Price Scoop Express.

  37. H4H Roy Williams said close to same thing last night about no effort or desire…losing 3 games in closing minutes out of past 4. He is so frustrated by the lack of demonstrable motivation and desire he’s almost ready to retire IF things don’t improve in Chapel Hill. What I find most alarming is the Same topic “DESIRE” and “WARRIOR HEART” being discussed all across the basketball land.by coaches like Roy Williams who shouldn’t even have to bring the topic(s) up for discussion.

    1. Would love to feel some empathy for Roy Williams …but, I’m sorry, I can’t. I can’t get past the 15 years of ghost classes thing. Within some highly paid group of lawyers interpretation, loopholes, whatever guaranteeing you retain your image…I don’t care.
      If your university was advocating falsified transcripts and zero effort in a ‘ghost class’ classroom, then I have a problem sharing in your bucket of hypocrisy tears. Instead of making them dive for loose balls in practice, Roy should have them try to dive for loose transcripts. Use the paper to wipe off the blood wounds.

      I see skipping classes and legitimate failing grades…as, somehow, more honorable than attending an invisible classroom to get your invisible ‘A’ ….somehow reappearing in all it’s glorious ink on a transcript. Sorry, Roy…..Can’t find my bleeding heart. I would imagine you weren’t point out the hypocrisy when Sampson was being dragged to the gallows.

      I agree with your points, TJ…I just don’t agree with your chosen example to seek some empathy for failed effort.

  38. Just wait to see how ugly it gets when you start paying the prima donnas far and above the scholarship. Think there is no effort or warriors now. We’ll live for college game rare to mimic the 4th quarter of an NBA All-Star game as if that is basketball utopia.

    Just a question: When do we start paying those most gifted students and all the super-geniuses who make our university research departments prestigious and inviting for big corporate dollar grants and donations far and above the value of their scholarships? Why should an athlete be the only one paid far and above the value of a scholarship. I’m pretty sure our universities flourish in donations and grants because they attract some of the top brains in the world. Seems like a top brain deserves to share in as much of the university funds and profits as much as a top athlete.

  39. Keep with the “Inside Out” recruiting, Archie. It will pay dividends soon. Keep ‘Stayin’ Alive’… Always talent under the radar.

    One day you only have 4196 views, next thing you know your sultry sweet tone once covering a 1979 Bee Gee song is winning a Grammy.

    Talent is always waiting to be discovered …whether it be hoops or an undiscovered shooting off of some sounds on YouTube. Wow…She has “it factor.” Star in making.

  40. Maybe the problem goes well beyond young male basketball players. Maybe the problem is how this generation of young men has been raised? Lot’s of data, studies and articles discussing how our society is “feminizing every stage of male life” and the number of young men who grew up without fathers in the household or in their lives.

  41. Thank you to all for your insights, thoughts and perspectives. It is entertaining therapy for me.

    I did a bit of stat research on Garza, Cowan, Stevens, Winston, Dosunmu, Jalen Smith. All of these guys have the will to win coupled with the will to improve. Garza is an absolute beast, & he has willed himself to where he is. I was very impressed with Dosunmu in the huddle tonight vs. Penn St. The network had them mic’d. Kid is a So. & has more moxie than our entire team added together for the last 10 years. Most of these cats started with about 11-12 ppg as Fr. (except Winston at 7 ppl), improved to 15-16 ppl as So. & Jr., & now are approaching 19-20 ppg. Very impressed by these young men. They all lead. They all play very very hard.

    Then I look at our roster. Aside from Brunk & TJD, I don’t think we have another player that has “that” (kind of toughness). We certainly don’t have kids that as upperclassmen lead by example. Kudos to that point made in an earlier post. Until we have Sr.’s setting the right examples, we’ll continue to be average. And I’m talking about the right examples on the floor, in the classroom and serving the homeless on Sundays.

    I believe that Archie knows that and is recruiting for “that”. I’m watching NW play MD right now. I’m very impressed with Collins & the teaching, coaching & the way they are keeping the effort and heads high. That’ll pay off in 2 yrs. & it is a team I don’t want our team to play in Indy in March. Then I harken back to Underwood. In his 1st season what struck me is how hard his team played. 1ST SEASON! Talk about building culture!

    So, here we sit, awaiting a MN road trip, who just lost there. We don’t play very well there. It is a bad building to shoot in. Then, if that’s not enough, we go home to face #9 PSU who just lost at home. This season can be saved with a run here & simply wanting it more. But I just don’t see it happening.

  42. AWinAZ, really good post above and I agree with you that it is unlikely that the season can be saved. But I’m curious how you would define “this season” being “saved?” I don’t see it as being salvageable. Even if we limp in to the NCAA Tournament, we’ll be such a low seed we’ll be done in the first round. Going deep in the NIT won’t matter to anyone and I doubt it would matter to the Seniors on this roster. I’d like to see this team finish strong, but relative to Hoosier fans everywhere, this season is pretty much over.

  43. For some odd reason, I still have hope.

    There have been a lot of electrons flying around the room and roster…There have been frustrations flown from the lips a coach. There has been a mean-spirited reporter target and demean one of our seniors at a postgame press conference.

    I watched more electrons fly in that moment…I watched Trayce Jackson-Davis remain composed …while seeing words on his quiet face. I saw him having Devonte’s back in that silence.

    Many, many electrons flying…..They can either dance into oblivion or they can find a center. The center is the nucleus of this team that has been missing. I do believe the center is forming. I believe we have found our heart and our chemistry. A freshman and a senior….found a bond and move toward the protons. I hope it’s a dangerous bond and a strong bond. I hope all our roster gets sucked toward the center as our coach spins the chemistry like Curly Neal once spun the rock effortlessly as if leather and all molecules of his basketball atom were tamed in eternal memory within the centrifugal forces lifted upon his index finger (NOT the “traffic finger”).

    Chemistry has no timetable…..but I sense the electrons of our team have moved toward center. I used to love Curly Neal…No reason I can’t love Curly Green meets Devonte Haynes.

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