IU athletics announces hour cuts, furloughs

Indiana’s athletic department announced furloughs and hour reductions as a means to offset losses from the COVID-19 pandemic.

In a Friday afternoon release, IU said the department’s staff, which includes coaches, will be taking at least one two-week, unpaid furlough between October 1, 2020, and June 30, 2021. Any coaching furloughs would have to be on a voluntary basis for contractural reasons.

Other staff members whose “positions have been most directly impacted by the lack of sporting events this fall” will have their work hours reduced to “either every other week (50%) or, in some cases, in full (100%),” the release said. That group does not include coaches.

“Due to the COVID-19 pandemic, IU Athletics has not participated in an intercollegiate athletic event in five and a half months, which necessitated tough decisions regarding our staff,” IU athletic director Scott Dolson said in a statement. “Throughout this process, we have prioritized our staff, and the decision to ask everyone to share the burden was made to minimize the number of employees who would be impacted to a much more significant degree.

“With that said, this remains a very difficult day for our entire IU Athletics family, who devote their time, efforts and energies to supporting our students and representing our department and Indiana University in a first-class way.”

While there is a possibility the Big Ten could kick off a football season in early 2021, or even possibly by Thanksgiving, according to a report from the Milwaukee Journal-Sentinel, going without a revenue-generating sport for a sustained period of time will hurt the bottomline. In the last fiscal year, IU football was responsible for bringing in $52.7 million in operating revenues, including $32.7 million from media rights and another $6.8 million in ticket sales.

In total, IU’s athletic department had revenues of $127.8 million in the 2019 fiscal year.

On top of the loss of a fall football season, Big Ten athletic departments and others were already suffering from the loss of last season’s NCAA men’s basketball tournament.

In June, an internal memo from IU’s athletics leadership estimated the department needed to shed 10 percent of its expected costs — about $11.8 million — to offset a projected revenue shortfall. Around that time, IU instituted some initial cost-cutting measures, including freezes on bonus pay, salary increases, and hiring.

As part of that round, Dolson, IU football coach Tom Allen, and IU men’s basketball coach Archie Miller donated 10% of their salary back to the department, saving about $1 million. Also, as of Aug. 3, the athletic department was employing 26 fewer people than on that date in 2019, and, of those, 16 were full-time positions that would not be replaced.

Once the football season was postponed, IU, like every school without a source of athletics revenue, was forced to make deeper cuts. For instance, Purdue announced earlier this week it was instituting furloughs and eliminating positions. Pay cuts would be as high as 40%, and the department’s top earners — including its football and men’s and women’s basketball coaches and athletic director Mike Bobinski — would take a 20% cut in pay and forgo incentive compensation for a year.

IU may not be done cutting, though. The release referenced previous cost-saving measures, as well as the salary givebacks by Dolson, Miller, and Allen, and added, “IU Athletics is continuing to explore additional financial mitigation measures as well.”

106 comments

  1. Just wanted to spend a moment to honor the loss of one of the great men in college basketball. R.I.P. Lute Olson. He built Arizona basketball. In Tucson, they said, “Hell of a basketball coach, BUT even better man.”

    Arizona was my first fandom living in Tucson in 1987. Lute came over from Iowa in 1983 and took over and Arizona team that had only won 4 games the year before. They were in the NCAA tournament in year 2. They went to the Final Four with Steve Kerr and Sean Elliot in 1988 and only lost 2 games.

    In a stroke of luck, in 1997, I was in Bloomington and the Final Four was in Indy. I got to see Lute’s squad beat Dean Smith in his last game in the FF, on the way to winning his only National Championship.

    Lute built a program in Tucson and stayed. Everyone here can understand the relationship towns and small cities have with their University sports teams. Lute turned Kentucky away twice when they wanted to hire him. He loved Tucson, poured his money, time, heart and soul into the local community. It’s so rare that you find a man who’s character can fill the shoes of his talents.

    I’m really sad about this today. But I’m sure many here will feel differently. Bobby didn’t really like Lute. But who of his contemporaries, at the time, did he like? Just the ones he could run over. Bobby always loathed the men who would lock horns and battle with him.

    I’m a fan of both men for different reasons and wanted express this in the company of some true and genuine hoopers.

    1. Well remember the ’97’ FF. Took my oldest son who was 14 at the time. He still talks highly of the time we had.

      1. Ha! That was a great basketball game. We snagged some tickets from some Kansas fans who were headed home after losing to AZ in the Sweet 16. Glad you had that experience with your son!

    2. Was speaking with a friend yesterday who was a UA manager for Lute in the early 90’s and he confirmed LO had entered hospice care a few days ago. He said former Wildcat players continued to have close relationships with him well after their playing days and visited him in Tucson whenever they could, even as his condition deteriorated.

      1. What a great experience your friend had. My dad was on the board of the YMCA in Tucson, which served a really rough part of town. Lute was always so generous with his time and his players would often come along in tow.

        Glad he was able to be around his players. He cared so much for them. Life well lived.

          1. Seemed like a very down to earth man….I remember the beautiful white hair much like Bobby grew into. His sideline demeanor was of a man/coach in calm and constant control. A sportsman who didn’t show a sore loser side. He exuded confidence and was about as far from a clown act as one could get.
            He sure had style and grace. The style I always hoped for at Indiana Basketball. Genuine.

  2. A 10% 1-year base salary cut is an insult for coaches who are guaranteed 25-30 million on lengthy contracts. Give us a dollar figure of how much they are actually taking off the top of their pay.
    The CEO’s and those atop the pyramid take 10% cuts off a base pay as if all things equal to anyone else experiencing the same cuts or far heavier prices (while the authors of these stories never grant the truth of protected job status, parachute packages, huge buyout clauses, self-made bonuses, stock options, premium healthcare benefits for entire families, etc, etc). It’s sold as some wonderful heartfelt sacrifice. It’s nothing. It’s $50,000 dollars “sacrificed” from someone who has already made 12 million and is guaranteed to make 12 million more.
    When hearing of so many others kicked out the door, it sounds so silly to prop these protected classes up as if there 10% is a form of generosity which can offset the true economic hardships many in their organizations/departments/job category will face. Do what’s right rather than what sounds good by the numbers.

    1. Initial response was IU cutting 10% of the athletic budget. Hence the 10% reduction of salaries by the big $$ coaches. If at the time IU said 30% or whatever, I think that would be agreeable to those coaches. Maybe a fool would donate 40% when 10% is asked for.

      1. Only a fool would think $50,000 on 25 million guaranteed contracts was truly stepping up to the crisis and the hardship impacting universities and athletic department members.
        When you removed March Madness last season (at the onset of a pandemic sold to be evaporating into thin air by Easter Sunday), it should have prompted immediate actions in generosity. The tournament was a massive loss of television revenue which should have prompted massive top level payroll cuts/generosity/sacrifice.
        Kick the can down the road….Without the worker bees there will be no paved roads.

        1. What practical impact to anyone who’s been put out of work due to the pandemic exists if coaches reduce their salaries by some token amount?Perhaps it’s nice to tell people that pain is being shared, but is that really accurate? And is shared pain really a material issue beyond those directly impacted by the financial strains within any athletic department? If you’re an employee or donor, I understand, but that isn’t likely who you have in mind with your endless commentary on this issue.

          Empathy is wonderful, but is this really empathetic or more just a combination of envy and anger, combined with opportunity (on the part of the righteously indignant)?

          1. I don’t anticipate empathy. That’s like anticipating cue cards to end in solid coaching. I anticipate what is just. I also anticipate accuracy and true dollar figures rather than arbitrary percentages. Percentages of what? What are you using as their salary? Are you using the 3.3 million/year a coach will “normally” earn ….(and has earned over the last three years) or the base salary of $500,000?
            Indiana is a public university and the public should be protected from the privatizing of select untouchable groups while so many are shown the door.
            A pandemic is a poor reason for wake-up call. But maybe it’s time to start evaluating ludicrous long term protected salaries and extensions? We should have learned our lesson during the bamboozled 30 million chucked out the door on a coach who brought cue cards to McCracken. One would think that was enough pain to the eyes and pocketbook? Haven’t we played the “fool” card enough? We will soon be 50 million into guaranteed basketball salaries paid to sustain cue card coaching (along with its aftereffects) along with guaranteed riches for a 2-year pandemic for what is still a relatively unproven coach at a very demanding conference.
            Archie and new top administrators should not bear the brunt of past hiring mistakes, but they surely must understand the miniscule return we’ve had on our investment (in terms of relevance on big stages compared to our Midwestern peers) even before a pandemic shut us down further.
            Somehow we still find the money….for those who earn the most no matter the success or the worldwide distress.

    1. “Just” for whom? And why would it be “just” for whomever? You still haven’t made any case for that, other than envy and anger.

      As for salaries, the University may be public, but the athletic department and the salaries paid from it don’t involve any public funding. The money comes from donations, rights fees, merchandise and ticket sales, and sponsorships. There is no taxpayer component. Funny how you continue to ignorantly mix in a non sequitur about Crean. Nice effort, if totally unrelated and completely nonsensical. We expect that, so no worries.

      1. If it’s so damn private, then privatize all of it. Get it off the campus and let’s see how well it survives without a student population. It benefits immeasurably from the student population and the reputation of the school/name on the jersey.
        And where does land and facilities and there long term costs fit into that world of privatized operating budgets? The true costs are truly ledgers in cooked books.

        You actually believe return on a coaching investment ending in cue cards is irrelevant? If your own ignorance found that to be any return on a salary investment compared to the rest of ‘Conference Midwest Elite,’ then whatever is privatized is securing exactly what I argue. It is securing a protected inner class of incompetence and does nothing to further the competitive reputation of our Indiana sports programs.

        1. Your first two paragraphs are your tacit admission that you know nothing about the financial aspects of college athletics. Not. A. Thing.

          Your next paragraph attempts to justify your requisite non sequitur. Will you next be be posting about barbecue sauces, squirrels or macrame, as each topic is as relevant to that special one, with all of its predictable tangents, that you steadfastly offer here, regardless of the subject we’re discussing (or attempting to discuss with you).

          Your fourth paragraph (which doesn’t exist) was your most complete and provided the true depth of thoughtful commentary regarding why (and for whom) it is “just” that coaching salaries have been reduced during this period of crisis.

        2. But those schools are exceptions. Most public universities lose money on their athletic programs — and many have been running up ever-bigger debt to finance stadiums. The trend has occurred even though there is little evidence that football provides major revenue for expanding academic programs or reducing skyrocketing tuition. Instead, as college football has become a multibillion-dollar business demanding state-of-the-art facilities and massive coaching salaries, it is taxpayers and already debt-burdened students who ultimately pay the bill.

          “There is this notion that by building the stadium you are going to go up to some higher class of college sports, and being in this higher class of college sports you are going to get more exposure, you are going to get more out-of-state applications and you are going to get more people donating to your school or to your athletics program,” said Smith College sports economist Andrew Zimbalist, in a 2013 presentation about the economics of college stadiums.

          “The problem is that the empirical data — the evidence that’s out there — is not very supportive of those claims or of those hopes,” he said.

          The football spending binge continues at large and small public universities alike.

          Between 2009 and 2013, public universities reported increasing their annual expenditures on football to more than $1.8 billion — a 21 percent jump in inflation-adjusted dollars, according to Knight Commission data reviewed by International Business Times. In that same time period, public universities’ reported debt on their athletic facilities has grown to $7.7 billion — up 44 percent in inflation-adjusted dollars in that time. In all, two thirds of Division I public universities increased their spending on football or athletic facilities in that time period — when average tuition and student fees at public universities have risen more than 40 percent in the last decade.

          https://www.ibtimes.com/college-football-public-universities-spend-millions-stadiums-despite-slim-chance-2258669

          1. Taxpayers aren’t footing those bills . . . I’ve already identified the revenue sources. Dig a little into the finances at the Indiana U. Athletic Department if you’re truly interested in understanding them.

            You keep reaching because you’re unable to address what is “just” (since you never bothered to consider what it meant before it came gurgling out of your mind and onto your keyboard).

            No wonder brevity is beyond your capability. It’s taken a back seat to the facts. Again.

  3. These are only cosmetic cuts, wait for a big fund raising plea. Recruiting is still virtual and we hired a new assistant basketball coach, will he be impacted by the cuts? No ticket sales, no donor’s paying seat preference payments, maybe I U can get large donations for a new campaign called, “The select few”, with reduced number of fans allowed to athletic events.

  4. I don’t think you can “bubble” Big10 basketball with any semblance to the NBA model. I would be shocked if there is a season. They should not drag out the inevitable with these winter ‘contact’ sport student-athletes in the same fashion which ripped out the hearts of the fall participants.

    I believe the overly optimistic statements by Archie (e.g. ” I would be shocked if there isn’t a 2020 basketball season”) were made to soften the blow to personal pocketbooks.

    Play a shortened season at Bankers Life? Bring in teams for a 4-week Big10 “bubble” tournament while allowing the student-athletes to participate in online/virtual classrooms? Designated hotels? Zero interstate travel? Does the revenue justify the expense and the risks to go forward?

    Personally, I don’t see college basketball having any better chances of full seasons than football. A few months won’t make enough difference.

  5. Maybe “pandemic clauses” and “acts of god clauses” should be written into future coaches/top administrators contracts? If only a fool can find true generosity in the heart, then what fool writing their contracts should go forward without covering their own ass? Hard to find any justification in being locked into such huge salary expenditures when so many in the employment world are simply shown a door in a worldwide health/environmental/economic crisis.
    I sometimes wonder if all of the “normalizing” of a pandemic (including the lost compassion for the suffering and massive loss of life) is to simply perpetuate the normalizing of the “have-nots” giving up everything while the “haves” give up, virtually, nothing.

  6. I remember a time when Indy had a fund raiser marathon to save the Pacers….to keep them afloat until they who are the actual financial big dogs in professional sports could financially rape the city of Indy …so they could say look at us we have professional sports….and we the big dogs are very wealthy…and the lowly Indy citizens and (surrounding towns and cities) are delusional…just like all the other professional sports cities and towns.

  7. DD, my oldest daughter went to and graduated from Arizona. As a result, my wife and I adopted the Wildcats as our second favorite college sports program. My daughter worshiped Lute Olson, and we were fortunate enough to be in attendance when he was honored by Arizona during a sold out BB game. The ovation he received that day was so passionate and lasted so long that it reminded me of how IU Fans greeted Landon Turner when he first returned to Assembly Hall the winter after his tragic car crash (which I also happened to attend).

    As a grown man, I met Lute in the Las Vegas Airport. He was, during our brief interaction, a class act. He asked me where I went to school and I responded, Indiana. He smiled, shook his head and said, “had some great battles with IU, glad we don’t have to play in Assembly Hall any more.”

    I have a theory about why Bobby was not too fond of Lute while he was at Iowa. IMO, it is because Lute’s Iowa teams kicked IU’s butts more times than we’d like to remember. Beating Lute’s Iowa teams were very difficult for Bobby. And as you said, Lute was one coach Baby could not intimidate or run over. He was tough as nails.

  8. Well, the first devastating wave has hit and there will be bigger ones to follow. The Big Ten Presidents’ decision to postpone FB and forfeit the revenue it generates is coming home to roost. Have the overpaid bureaucrats who made this decision offered to take a pay cut? Has anyone asked them to? How about we ask them to accept an 80% pay cut until they bring FB back? Not likely, because as always, it’s the little people without any power who get crushed. Our elite leaders will sail through the crisis without suffering significant economic hardship, if they suffer at all. Leadership at its finest!

    1. Po,
      I think the biggest financial wave to hit the B1G is already out there just waiting to come it. Remember when everyone thought I was crazy for saying the payment of college athletes was coming. The virus may have delayed that impact somewhat, but it is still out there. So here is what I believe to be the biggest wave to hit the B1G, player lawsuits for shutting down.

      I know I’ll get panned for saying so, but stop and think about a couple things. First, if the Power 3 are able to successfully navigate a season, the basis for B1G player lawsuits is strengthened significantly. Second, the kids are recruited to the B1G for one reason only, to play sports. We can put all the lipstick on the pig we want, but the pig is still a pig. Most of these kids coming in have visions of a nfl career in their heads, and losing a season unnecessarily gives the players grounds to make life miserable for all the B1G schools. I know it is debatable regarding the necessity to cancel the season, but every game played by the other conferences will serve only to weaken the necessity to cancel the season or delay into the spring argument.

      1. Why are we so worried about smoke-filled bars and restaurants…? Enter at your own risk. If you don’t like secondhand smoke, go elsewhere.
        If we can spit Covid in our neighbor’s face, why not cigarette smoke (especially outdoors and at games)? Let’s also bring back drinking and driving….It’s simply your own risk behind the wheel drunk. Anyone else concerned for their highway safety, should keep their distance.
        A free society shouldn’t live in fear. And if a 17-year-old can openly carry a loaded assault weapon on a crowded street for his right of self-protection or “law and order,” then why can’t he bring it to a football game? We live in such ridiculous fear…I’m all cool with a teenager bringing an assault weapon anywhere he damn pleases. Hell, give him a military issued Dasani, a cigarette and a bottle of booze with his freedom and for protecting the fans at the game from true nutbags protesting for ‘Black Lives Matter.’
        Please give me back my normal life of willfully spreading diseases (sexually transmitted ones as well), secondhand smoke, drinking while driving, texting while driving, crapping in the street while carrying my assault weapon…and DOING AS I PLEASE with this invisible strain of a China bat cold only killing old farts who already had one foot in the grave! Let freedom ring!

        1. If we do bring back football, I think we should regulate games to only be played if stadiums are packed full. I want full reward with my risk. No more of these historic lowly “pandemic-like” attendance numbers plaguing IU Football for the past 50 years. If I’m going to die, can I at least enjoy a packed Memorial Stadium instead of one suffering from a long term cancer of apathy?

          Good Lord, if Hoosier football fans had only wanted football for the last century as much as they want it today. Absence of losses and the sight of a stadium packed as full as a Norman Bates’ motel must truly make the heart grow fonder.

          1. Harvard: There’s hope for that packed stadium you yearn for. Athletic Graphics can print up a few thousand of those ‘fan cut outs’ being used at arenas and stadiums already. Just store them under the bleachers and pull them out, not because of Corona, but for any home game. 12,000 ought to do it.

        2. Havard,

          Over the years I have sought to dialogue with you based on valid points you have made regarding the sporting world. We’ve disagreed on many issues but I had no problem with those disagreements. However, when you throw out a statement like this, “And if a 17-year-old can openly carry a loaded assault weapon on a crowded street for his right of self-protection or “law and order,” without revealing there is another side to the story, then there is a reason why your many diatribes are being met with much skepticism.

          There is certainly room for much discussion regarding the wisdom of what I assume to be the 17-year old in Kenosha being present at the time in question, but there is another side to the story. Your failure to reveal that side of the story indicates one of two problems with your statement. Either your information sources are as I have often criticized many over, very narrow, or you have deliberately omitted the other side of the story in order to make a deceptive point.

          I will reiterate so that there is no room for misunderstanding regarding the part of the story concerning the wisdom of said 17-year old being present at the time rightfully being the subject of much question. However, omission of the other side of the story which also has video evidence is problematic at best. It is also why I say the loss of sports and the virus are the least of our worries, the specter of an ACW2 is far more troublesome.

          1. There would certainly be “war” if he carries that gun it into my neighborhood. I would consider it an instant threat and react accordingly. Where on earth are the parents?
            How terribly sad that this sort of weaponry is in the hands of children. It’s simply indefensible. I’m not going to say he’s fortunate for not ending up dead…because the infection upon a mind and the cowardice to so easily kill someone with such weaponry means he’s already in possession of a dead soul.

            I really don’t know how to respond to any defense of this sort of distorted vigilante, law-in-your-own-hands, behavior. It is merely a sickness. He has taken two lives and destroyed his own. Those are the only facts that truly matter. The only side of the story is the moment he made a decision to walk out his own front door; a child with his sexy, glorified and simple means to search for his version of order and to kill in the cowardice of massive bodily harm kept on his nose-picking fingertip.

          2. BD,

            My standard response on such is, “I’m not going to do your homework for you.” I’m not going to support anyone’s lack of intellectual curiosity or laziness. You can do the same thing I have to do. Hold your nose, do the research in places that don’t support your point of view and you’ll find your answer. It is far more effective when you discover it for yourself than have me give sources so you can just dismiss them out of hand without bothering to go and look at them yourself.

          3. I’ve done the research, Think. I’ve done quite a bit, as a matter of fact. I wanted to see if you had, and your response made it clear what the true answer to that question is.

          4. Harvard,

            So you are fine if someone were come into your neighborhood “peacefully” protesting their grievances by burning down everything in sight, mercilessly beating anyone who happens to get in their path, using bricks as weapons to harm and destroy, but just don’t oppose them in any way, and especially with any sort of firearm? Is that what you are saying Harvard???

            I told you I had questions about the boy’s presence there, but you chose to ignore that point. Secondly, my understanding is they were there to protect someone’s neighborhood from being invaded by those “peaceful” protesters you seem to support. They were not the invaders but the defenders. There is a difference.

            This is why it may be a long time before sports ever comes back to this country. Our young will not be engaged in sporting battles but a very horrible battle if this lack of ability to see the other side of the story continues. My only question is your ignorance of the other side of the story willful or just don’t care.

          5. And your reply to Harvard confirms that you haven’t done your research. They weren’t there to protect anyone’s neighborhood. They were protecting a used car lot. In Wisconsin, the use of deadly force in such a scenario is not permitted, by law. Further, that 17 year did not lawfully possess that rifle, per Wisconsin law. Now, to what “other side of the story” were you referring since you omitted these key facts?

          6. Funny BD,

            I laid out the bait and you fell for it. You admitted, “They were ‘protecting’ a used car lot.” I deliberately didn’t mention any particulars about what you admit to that they were protecting. I was using the illustration of a neighborhood for Harvard because that is what was stated by Harvard. Now that you admit they were “protecting” an individual’s property albeit a business, from those “peaceful” protesters you seem to shield, why don’t you go ahead tell the rest of the story about how the boy was being chased down by armed protesters? Was it you or your information source which left that little part out?

          7. Actually, it was very clear that you didn’t do any research at all, since you had no idea what he was doing there. You made no reference to a used car lot, since you weren’t aware of it, nor did you reference why anyone believed that lot needed to be “protected”. You also didn’t make any reference as to what he did to cause him to be chased. Further, you purposely failed to address that he was in illegal possession of the firearm he used to murder two people. You didn’t know about these things because you didn’t bother to learn about the “other side of the story”.

          8. BD,

            I have said from my first comment that the wisdom of a 17-year old being there in the first place was certainly up for question, if you had bothered to read my statement.

            That being said, there are some things was are very obvious about your comments. Either you have not personally seen the video or you are in denial about what you have seen. Here are some undeniable facts from the video which I HAVE seen.

            1. The kid is running down the street attempting to escape a mob of protesters
            pursuing him. No one has been shot because the bodies are not on the ground
            yet.
            2. The kid falls down either by being knocked down by one of the protesters or by
            tripping and falling.
            3. When he falls down the mob proceeds to descend upon him and I’m sure he was,
            like we all should be, aware of the serious bodily injury and/or death of others who
            have been caught by such mobs.
            4. When those chasing him come into extremely close proximity to him we see
            objects being hurled at him and it is hard to tell without enhanced video what
            else is going on.
            5. We see a 17-year old kid on the ground with pursuers all around start firing and
            bodies of those shot hitting the ground and the mob running away.
            6. We see the kid attempt to flag down emergency vehicles and hear them order
            everyone out of the area from their vehicle PA speakers.
            7. We hear a lot of conjecture at this point regarding what the boy did after this point.

            This being said if you think this boy’s pursers would have not caused great bodily harm to him after the violence which was already occurring, you are being extremely disingenuous at best. It is a funny thing BD, you seem to think it is okay for “peaceful” protesters to loot, burn down other people’s property, and beat and kill people in the name of this so called “justice,” but have a problem with a kid no matter how out of place he was . . .
            Defending his life???

            . . . and we think we have problems in the sporting world???

          9. Again, you leave out salient facts because you failed to do research. That kid was there not because he was asked to be there by anyone. Not the cops or any other official law enforcement agency. Not the owner of the car lot. No one.

            He and his friends determined they needed to be there, on their own. Further, they determined their unrequested presence should also include beIng armed (illegally, in his case, as you continue to deny). So, they had no officially sanctioned mission, only their self determined one, other than to provocatively insert themselves into a situation, and to do so with weapons.

            Then, this kid decided to confront someone whom he decided was going to vandalize cars. I have no idea if this was going to occur or not, but it wouldn’t be shocking. Whether they were or not, it is illegal for anyone in Wisconsin (other than law enforcement) to use a weapon in that instance to prevent the destruction of property. Nonetheless, he decided he should play cop and warn them away from potentially damaging cars, using his illegally possessed weapon to drive home the point. From there, several people decided to chase him, with the resulting mayhem and fatal shootings the ultimate result.

            Whether others were going to damage property isn’t relevant. He and his mates were the catalysts for a massive escalation of tensions, and lives and families have been destroyed as a result. Maybe you should pause and think about it a little.

            That’s the “other side of the story”. People looking to destroy property were needlessly confronted by armed vigilantes who were looking for confrontations. They were playing policeman and it turned tragic. Amazingly and sadly, lives were ended and lives were ruined. That you didn’t know the “other side of the story” doesn’t change those facts, it just makes you look foolish for trying to make a point without knowing what truly happened.

          10. BD,

            That is as lame of a response as I think I have ever seen. You are trying to defend the indefensible by blaming it on the indefensible. I never once defended the kid’s right to be there, but by blaming the kid for his actions you are trying to cover for the indefensible mob actions of those who would in the name of justice burn, destroy, kill and injure. This is indisputable and you have know it. It places one on the side of defending anarchy.

            There is nothing wrong with those who peacefully protest, but that has not been the intent since these protests began and that is very evident. I know you cannot be that ignorant of these mobs intentions because unlike someone else, you can write salient posts. The kid had no more right to be there than did the so-called “peaceful” protesters have the right to destroy in the name of protest. I’m not trying to defend the kid being there, but neither can we defend the mobs bent on destruction being there by trying to misdirect the cause away from the wanton destruction brought on by these so-called “peaceful” protests.

            You and I are just a microcosm of the ongoing disconnect going on in this country. It would be nice if we could go on like this about our disagreements over sports like we used to periodically. Unfortunately, if these violent protests continue what you saw in Kenosha is just an outlier of what could happen, which is my fear. The vast majority of these violent protests have come from one side of the philosophical spectrum over the last 50 plus years. As of yet, other than isolated instances, the other side has never similarly engaged in a meaningful way. God help us if they ever do, I fear that day greatly.

            At this point, I’m at the end of this discussion. I’ve seen too many things thrown out there by “you know who” that do not get challenged. Unfortunately, it seems that you and I have been drawn into this by a rather lightweight joker sitting on the sidelines while the heavyweights battle it out. Neither of us our exercising much in the way of brevity, which by the way, I again give you kudos for the masterful strategy you utilized on “you know who.” Well, I did least get us back to some sporting metaphors by utilizing the boxing terms!

            I sure wish we could get back to some decent actual sports to argue over, it is a lot more fun.

          11. I understand your need to deflect, but we are where we are because you both lacked a full comprehension of the facts and then misrepresented some of the ones you did have a grasp of. It didn’t suit your argument then, and it’s not helpful to you now. Excoriating me for assigning responsibility to the person who pulled the trigger, resulting in two people’s deaths and his likely long incarceration, while giving him a free pass, shows you don’t know the other side of anything.

            You claimed only one side of the story was represented and implied you knew the other side. You did not, and you’ve been backpedaling and dodging ever since. If you want anyone to ever thinkaboutit, do your homework first next time. If not, you’ll not get far with the “other side of the story”, regardless of what that story may be.

          12. Well, I tried to reason with you BD,

            Apparently you have as big a blind spot on certain issues as does the joker. I hope I am wrong, but time will tell. I have no illusions as to what is occurring, but if the worst should happen, I at least tried to sound the warning.

          13. “Assault” weapon is a pretty accurate description. The moment you walk out your front door with “assault” capabilities (not to mention the taking of the law into your own untrained hands in a community you don’t reside) , you leave zero room for error (in others and in yourself). You have decided any growing disagreement or threat to you will end in death. You are in a total fantasy land if you think that high-powered gun serves as a deterrent to violence.
            It is provocation for violence. When not in the hands of official law enforcement , It serves to throw gasoline on what are already volatile situations/dangerous situations…There is no heroism in creating death where law enforcement may have curtailed that type of escalation. You are not the law. You are not in your own community.
            You are a child who has been taught to glorify weaponry and glorify killing.

          14. Also thinking of all the discussions about “fear” we’ve had on this blog….Carrying a weapon that can kill dozens in a matter of seconds pretty much covers all the bases for a requirement to shield personal fears. It masks so much of your own fear via its potential infliction of death to your imagined or real enemy, that the normal fears in the consequences of pulling the trigger live in the same delusions.
            I guess I’ll be somebody’s bitch when this ‘Civil War Part II’ arrives because I don’t have the fears to own real killing power in my hands. I have faith that enough of us know retribution and self-made justice is not the answer. My only weapon is rather sizable Harmon Killebrew made by Louisville Slugger. I’ve had it since childhood and days my dad would would use Ol’ Kill to blast fly balls to me to run down. I’m not even sure if it’s from a more innocent day….It’s just from a day I was taught to know I was not ready to take on all the ills of the world at 17. I feel lucky to have enjoyed a childhood without such fears in needing such a destructive piece of weaponry as an assault rifle to get through a day.
            I have faith we can live without sports and still retain our civility. I believe in bedside Killebrew, my father’s peaceful but confident forms of respect and in this great country far more than those spouting such fears. Yes, I know…I have been warned. I just don’t believe it’s worth fighting for if it means turning my son into a street wandering assassin.

      2. Po: Not getting panned here. I posted here 3 weeks ago that no games would be disastrous. It has come to pass..and the ramifications get worse by the day. The player naming rights issue could not have come at a worse time from a legal standpoint. When the Conference begins to get letters in the mail, not from parents, but legal representation,…watch. The BIG will ‘suddenly’ decide to have some sort of season. It will begin in mid October.

    2. Po, very good point about presidents and professors not taking pay cuts. I have no problem with cuts in coaching salaries and would even like to see more under these conditions but for the school administrators and professors to get money when students aren’t on campus is ridiculous. You are right that those without power in the system pay the price while the higher ups don’t.

      Our society was in bad shape until the stock market collapse as people were too involved in “me”. It took the Great Depression followed by WWII for people to once again care about those around them. I hope it doesn’t take such extreme events this time. Even the riots/protest are more about “me” and what “I” want which is why we see the destruction over riding the protest. I am disgusted with our national media; if people would research source videos/news would see how they lie, distort, and ignore things to meet their agenda. Like other times in our history educating yourself about events is necessary but something most don’t do – why yellow journalism worked in the late 1800s.

  9. 1…..Change of subject. Local paper notes IU PHD student arrested. Thought to be a Chinese government operative. AI and machine learning involved.

    2….After saying I trust local news, Indy Star front page has article “History of Black Drag Queens”. Why ??
    3….If and when we hit ‘bottom’ and start to rebound, what a great time to change how we currently operate. Appropriate pay scales would be a great start. Election system, courts and so much more could be improved.
    4…. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong but I would have more interest/support of BLM if the same outrage is shown when Blacks kill Blacks. Another drive-by shooting in Indianapolis killing a young child. That violence is mind-blowing and increasing. Is it the same everywhere? If not, Indianapolis is going to have a difficult time resuming convention business.
    5….. Back to Sports ..

    1. Ron,
      I’d be very curious as to what you mean by this:

      “3….If and when we hit ‘bottom’ and start to rebound, what a great time to change how we
      currently operate. Appropriate pay scales would be a great start. Election system, courts
      and so much more could be improved.”

    2. Ron: On #2. Because Gannett and it’s new owner are filled with paid staff that actually thinks that story is timely, relevant and uplifting,….which it is not. Very poor taste and worse timing. Then again, just read their reader submissions on Thursdays and Sundays. It clarifies their viewpoints more than the letters from readers.

    3. Question? What is responsible for more death on a daily basis: Statewide Covid or the overnight crime blotter from the eastside of Indy? (A.) Pretty much a toss-up.

  10. Maybe I’m looking at this wrong but I would have more interest/support of BLM if the same outrage is shown when Blacks kill Blacks

    Poverty, drugs, institutionalized systems of neighborhood/housing immobility, hopelessness….and the full slate of internalized despair should cause plenty of outrage. Did everything become so violent overnight in our cities (Chicago, Indianapolis, Minneapolis, Baltimore)…or is it simply decades of neglect and deterioration always pushing those attempting to survive on such streets (many predominantly black streets) to a breaking point?

    Why would a white soccer mom kill another white suburbia soccer man? Because she missed a lunch date? Grabbed the two best filets from the meat market case after cutting in line?

    Do we detest the violence more than poverty? We can denigrate the streets where violence is normalized while we have done little to end the segregated poverty in the corners of our cities? The trappings of these economic prisons have left no other enemy for a black man than the desperation found in the eyes of his brother. There is no other neighbor than institutionalized despair painted in our favorite color to ignore.

    Did the Civil War grant freedoms or did we simply replace the cotton fields where hard labor had no equal worth or “matter” with hopelessness of dying city streets which we give no worth or “matter?” In both cases, white supremacy is in control. The first instance is controlled ownership. The second instance is controlled neglect.

  11. And we wonder why we’re here today? We wonder why towns are being burned and quick triggers are being pulled? We built it and they came…but it ain’t a field of dreams. We built controlled neglect. We actually think we can keep law and order while maintaining the affront of systems under “controlled neglect” in inner cities turned into forgotten desperate economic prisons?
    Good luck with that sort of “Make America Great Again” magic trick….You can’t own enough assault weapons to bury neglect forever. Here’s an idea…Put down the assault weapons and stop importing all those China-made automatic rifles sold at Billy Bob’s Guns. Start “making America great again” with bricks and schools and empathy for those suffering. Start with the most desperate streets of our inner cities and the neighborhoods there are no Trump Towers. Work from there outward. Tell Billy to send an application off to Uber Eats…..

  12. Reparations discussion: The argument 40 acres and a mule. This is offset by the in today’s dollars over the years by trillions of dollars in all kinds of government programs for minorities. Reparations already paid. First, many reparations by logic…reparations could go to an endless list of people. American Revolution families, Civil war families, WWI and WWII families and any war for that matter. Those families who sacrificed loved ones lives for a number of reasons. Realistic reparations are…opportunity for individual life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. That’s it. There are no guarantees. White communities are being ignored as they have some of the same problems and issues as the black communities. Young whites and blacks have their own and many common problems and issues. Yes, there have been many crimes committed by blacks against whites. Whites have committed many crimes against blacks. Each have committed crimes against their own race and other races. In depth percentages could break down who is actually committing the most crimes against one another per capita of population. So feelings of hopelessness and anger etc are in both situations and others as well. Especially, in approaching middle age and younger people. It is an economic issue. It is a morality norm issue. It is a heart issue. It is a work issue. It is a distribution of wealth issue. The extremely widened/money disparity of wealth, morality, work, and heart norms, from the lower-lower, lower vs middle classes of society vs upper and upper upper has created a choke hold where society is choking on its own constitution. Let alone SACRIFICE which has always been a staple of American history. College loan debt, college cost, cost of all this technology, cost of bling umbrella… which I will include all the things that some can afford and others are hopeless to ever get. However, not only is it a wealth issue but a morality, work, and heart norms issue as well. It’s always been this way in this country or any other country. Just look at U.S. History and World History. How good of problem solvers are we in this country to sustain a degree or level to Civilized pursuit of freedom, peace, liberty love, joy, and happiness. Or through our mix of diverse puke just choke to death?

  13. During the Rodney King riots in L.A., videos from helicopters and photos taken from the ground showed numerous Korean-owned businesses in South Central L.A. that were being defended by men on rooftops armed with AR-15-style “long gun” rifles and shot guns. These men, both young and old, were visible on the roofs of the buildings their family/friends owned, protecting them from the violent rioters, looters and arsonists. Dozens of buildings in the immediate vicinity were on fire and most were destroyed after having been looted, as police and fire fighters had their hands full. Not one of the buildings being protected by Korean families was touched. There were never any reports that these business owners ever had to shoot anyone, but guns were aimed at people and many reports indicated that warning shots were fired.

    I don’t recall anyone (in or out of the media) ever criticizing these business owners for protecting their property with guns. In fact, most people admired these people for standing their ground in the midst of extreme chaos and violence. A couple years later I met a retired L.A. Police Officer who was in the midst of all that turmoil. He was on duty for days in that very same neighborhood. I asked him about the Koreans standing watch on the roofs of their buildings and what would have happened if they had shot anyone trying to damage their property. He responded, “in my opinion, it would have been justifiable, and it would have been unlikely that any of them would have been arrested, let alone prosecuted. They had a right to defend themselves and their property.”

        1. Huge amount of tension at that time in Southern California between the AA and Korean communities, with the shooting of an AA young lady by a Korean store keeper, which did not result in jail time. There was tremendous hostility as a result, and the RK riots were particularly devastating for the Korean community. Some may have attempted to defend their businesses, but most didn’t or couldn’t.

  14. Protecting “their” businesses..and “their” homes under threat being the key distinction.
    What is being promoted today is provocation by outsiders bringing/brandishing weaponry in areas and municipalities not one’s own business or neighborhood. Guns are being used as intimidation tools rather than tools of last resort. It’s a cultural glorification of instant killing and instant justice at the end of a trigger. Fanning the flames because the big gun can kill so quickly. I see nothing paralleling a true threat to one’s own family/personal belongings/businesses in recent examples of automatic weapon brandishing child/immature traveling street assassins.

    There’s much irony going on when many voices express a need to not quickly force judgment of a white cop shooting a black man multiple times in the back for fleeing a scene (e.g. we should “trust law enforcement” and those “trained” to handle crime in their community)…yet, these same groups are not trusting local law enforcement to deescalate violence and handle crime on their own streets. Don’t rush to judging a cop that knows his own assessment of a threat on his own streets….but rush to judgment of that same police force they can’t handle law and order on their own streets without you bringing in your own assault weapon capabilities?

    1. Yes, there are outside involvement in each of these places of riots, crime, intimidation, threats, looting, burning destruction, killing, injuries, and chaos. However, there is also local participation as in local individuals and Political leadership. There is also a very damaged psychic to the human mind creating much mental illness. This creates a situation where the irrational can not be rationalized, thus creating an uncivil situation.

    2. H4H, sole proprietorship that they are protecting and homes are the same about property especially since so many immigrants that live at the store. The guns that you see aren’t automatic I don’t like that the policeman shot Blake seven shots but he didn’t get stop by 2 different tasers and he said he had a knife. He was at a woman that he sexual assaulted and had a restraining order against him is why she called the police since he came in the house. There were many reason other than just fleeing that had Blake fighting the police to get away. As I said I have a problem with many shootings by police but I also understand how dangerous it is for them arresting people, stopping cars, or going to a domestic call. It takes a lot of training to not pull the trigger when you are in danger if it isn’t needed. Too many people have all their experience in the dangerous situations from movies and TV which isn’t close to the world.

      People talk about giving the talk to your children if you are black don’t understand those of us that understand guns know we tell our kids the same thing. When I am pulled over I keep my hands in place on the steering wheel and wait to do what the police ask me to do – I don’t like it but I understand he has a gun and the law to use it and I don’t want to get shot by a misunderstanding. There is a right and wrong way to deal with a man or woman with a badge and a gun.

      As far as guns at protest, both sides bring them, they shouldn’t be displayed. The rule should be don’t point a gun at anyone until you are ready to kill them. People act as if a gun is magic wand that will make people do what you want and they are not a magic wand.

        1. V13- When the 17-year-old walked out of his home with a high-powered rifle, there was nothing in his actions I found heroic. I find the first step he made in grabbing a gun as a decision in cowardice and immaturity. You can see it differently… That’s fine.
          Above and beyond the decision of a child to be the law, he traveled to a town/community not his own. Chased or attacked…or defending himself beyond that decision will be played out in the courts. But people didn’t have to die. He made the decision to leave his home/community with an instrument of death to an area already fueled by tensions. What did he actually expect to happen?
          I don’t see it as defending anything “personal” to him or his family. He’s tripping out on his own ego (more than obvious by his posture with the police when he’s asking for water) and his gun fills his weaknesses.
          Anyone has a choice to own such weaponry. But many abuse the right and the weaponry is not a deterrent to violence. It is used to incite, provoke and brandish because it can in the hands of the fearful and weak.
          And the same goes for anyone bringing guns to protests or unrest in streets. If he had a right to openly carry a high-powered rifle on streets not his own, then why doesn’t he have the same right to carry the gun into a football stadium? The assessment of peace or violence is through what is often already a distorted lens. Peace can quickly turn to tension…anywhere, anytime. Would you be comfortable with such posturing of weaponry in the hands of those not law enforcement at any event in your own community where the potential for opposing sides of any issue can ignite fervid disagreements?
          We can’t distinguish between a right to defend your family/home with whatever weaponry you feel necessary from actions that extend such “rights” into distortions to incite, intimidate and offend?

          Also interesting how our leadership has pretty much left it up to communities to deal with threats of a deadly virus….but it’s not up to communities to deal with threats of upheaval on their streets.
          If we had only taken up an early national strategy and serious approach to quell a massive silent killer, Covid-19, as we do to thrust ‘Wild West’ bravado on twitter to protect a used car lot in Kenosha, Wisconsin. We sure make guns a lot sexier than masks and ventilators…..But Covid was a massive assault weapon and it rioted upon our towns and streets in a killing fashion that doesn’t have imagery of burning buildings. But ask some healthcare workers who fought like hell in ICU units to save lives…Ask of the imagery burned upon their eyes. Search out some true heroes instead of an afraid 17-year-old pumped up from X-Box games and the rhetoric of cowardly leaders who possess zero character or compassion for the real death that has moved across our land from sea to sea.

          1. oops…

            But ask some healthcare workers who fought like hell in ICU’s units to save lives

            And isn’t that a shame….? We turn a gun-brandishing 17–year-old into a folk hero because the brave soul left two people dead in a street to defend himself. Meanwhile, the thousands of doctors, nurses and volunteers in hospitals across our country who have selflessly fought and sacrificed against a deadly virus can’t find a tweet or a headline. They entered a “war” with little weaponry to defend themselves. To peacefully fight with a belief one death is too many can’t find space for thanks and appreciation in our tiny tweeting brains.

      1. I remember State trooper Greene February, 1993 on
        I 65 between Lebanon and Indianapolis observed 2 men stopped on highway urinating. State trooper Greene pulled over and checked out situation. Outstanding warrants caused officer Greene attempt to cuff one of the individuals. The other individual shot and killed officer Greene who was a 16 year veteran. It happened as Trump might say, at wrap speed fast. I drove past there after it happened that day and several times thereafter to and from work. Just a minute before officer Greene was having another normal day.
        Unless the police are committing a flagrant crime or mistake I have never heard of anyone getting killed being COMPLIANT.
        I have been pulled over several times and a couple times I felt unfairly pulled over. I was always compliant and the most consequence was a ticket.
        I have heard many minorities talk about racial profiling and being pulled over many times. I am sure it happens but seldom without reason. I question how it is defined and framed. Even high profile minorities especially blacks talk about the many times they when they were totally innocent have been stopped by police pointing towards racism. I am sure it happens but frankly I don’t believe all there stories.

        1. t, there was one case I remember that happened in Wisconsin when a Hispanic police officer shot a black driver after the driver told him he had a carry permit with a gun in the car. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shooting_of_Philando_Castile. You are right that it is rare and doesn’t happen very often. Even the killing of blacks by officers is low but you would never know that by the way the press reports these events.

          1. Actually, the officer Greene shooting was by a white thug and another white thug as accomplice. The shooter died in his cell while death row. The other got 4 years in prison and according to information is believed to be dead.

  15. 2weeks later this will either make or break college sports and perhaps even send students back home. ” Iowa State expects 25,000 at first home game “

  16. ALL PROFESSIONAL (so called professional sports because they are really very unprofessional) SPORTS, HOLLYWOOD AND RELATED ENTITIES DON’T MATTER.
    (Very non essential). In fact detrimental far way to long.

  17. Didn’t mean to suggest that no Korean owned properties were damaged or destroyed during the RK riots in SouthCentral LA, but none of the businesses that had armed people standing guard on the roofs were destroyed. You can only be in one place at a time, and it’s much easier to defend a large building while standing on the flat roof than it is to defend a small single family home (large parking lots provide a much bigger field of fire). And I’m betting that the Korean business people chose to defend their sources of income, perhaps at the expense of their homes. The point being, many of them were armed and ready to defend their property, and they did.

  18. We need more John Thompson’s in and out of sports these days. I always had the highest regard for him, both as a coach and as a leader of young men. His was a life well lived.

    1. He also gave a very troubled young man a second chance. That young man became quite the college and NBA talent.
      I suppose it was in Thompson’s nature….
      It sounds like John Thompson believed in second chances. In our challenged similar circumstances of not so long ago, we believed in condemnation, rhetoric, witch hunts and the politicizing of religion to turn the mistakes of clay pot-tossing kids (not those brandishing assault weapons or robbing stores) into throwaway merchandise.

      His passing was long ago, but I would also put the great ex-Marquette coach, Al McGuire, into the same caring/second chance “nature” of John Thompson. Both had brilliant coaching minds…Both had such a wonderful way with young men who needed true compassion and role models.

  19. From the Daily Hoosier: “Reports: Indiana President Michael McRobbie 1 of 11 Big Ten leaders that voted to postpone fall sports”

    No wonder McRobbie voted to postpone the fall sports. He’s retiring soon and won’t have to deal with most of the fallout or endure the wrath of the student athletes and fans. He won’t have to deal with the carnage and the reclamation project that will be required for Big Ten Athletics.

    What bothers me is that 11 of these supposed highly learned and experienced people saw the decision in black or white. In other words, either delay until after January or move forward with the season as normal. What about delaying the start of the season to gather more information and see how things played out? IMO, it was really a myopic and unwise decision and an obviously a flawed process. The 11 University Presidents that voted to postpone the season until 2021 deserve all the criticism that gets heaped on them. Now some of the FB players are suing them, so it will be interesting to learn more about the true motivations were of these 11 people. Based on the science available at the time (and reinforced since then), IMO, it was NOT about the safety of the student athletes, who have an almost zero risk of suffering serious health consequences from getting COVID-19. IMO, these hyper-risk-averse people had other concerns and motivations to do what they did. Thank goodness they were not in charge of The Battle of Midway.

    1. You’re just realizing McRobbie was out-of-touch with IU Sports….?
      A decade of clapping for a 30 million dollar cue card developer on McCraken and this realization is just hitting you?
      If McRobbie had a brain, he’d just say he sought the advice of Jesus…He prayed a lot. He summoned the wishes of the Lord. Though he loves football more than a cue card, the Lord said it wasn’t a good time to start football.

  20. Don’t know how any of that falls into the discussion of a 17-year-old carrying a long rifle on tension-filled streets of a town he is not a resident. I don’t think he was defending Rittenhouse Dry Cleaners or Used Autos. He was there to take the law into his own hands and the weapon gave him comfort in doing so. This had nothing to do with defending a family’s personal business or home.

  21. The argument could be made it’s a shame that it takes a non resident 17 year old from another town to show adults , citizens, leaders, residents and nonresidents (both adults and teenagers) what they fail to demonstrate. PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY protected by the first amendment. Therefore, sadly a 17 year old demonstrated that reality of what was taking place becomes very unprotected. Since those who are declaring war on this IMPERFECT country continue their way of violence the argument could be made that more citizens who are on a particular side should follow the leadership of a 17 year old.

  22. That argument could be made, but it would invalid in any reasonable assessment. He wasn’t there to demonstrate to rioters / looters / protesters the sanctity and “preciousness” of their right to freely express themselves, as protected by the Constitution. That young man and his confederates were looking for confrontation, and they were purposely armed in anticipation of it. They were provocative in an aggressive manner and others who were provocative in an aggressive manner, attempting to match might with greater might. There was nothing noble about it. That something tragic came from it should hardly be surprising,

  23. Yep. That’s the purpose of Constitutional first amendment protection PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY including free speech which is not reality (that’s not what’s going on). Anything else is not protected. If the first amendment PEACEFUL ASSEMBLY is not implemented and upheld it leads to these kinds of situations. Yes they are tragic and does have a real threat of United States war on its own soil amongst its own society with foreign participation if this scenario continues long enough. The United States has invaded foreign countries for similar situations in their country/s. This country walks around pounding its chest when it has done these kinds of things. Sounds and is a very American hypocritical Attitude which many Americans if not most are guilty of.
    Continuing refusal to intentionally or unintentionally thru ignorance understand first amendment word PEACEFUL has a real possibility to lead to war. Reality, war is already taking place regarding various places in America. All, 100% Of sanctity and preciousness to freely express themselves or freedom of expression under first amendment of Constitution is null and void and never existed once the PEACEFUL line is crossed.

    1. Peaceful assembly hasn’t been prevented by any law or practice, so there’s no threat to the full exercise of anyone’s First Amendment rights. Suggesting rioters and / or looters are impinging on those rights is nonsense.

        1. Not sure what you’re talking about.
          First amendment is non existent for rioters and looters meaning they have 0 (as in no or none) rights under first amendment of Constitution.

          1. You’re arguing something that’s neither in dispute nor applicable to what’s currently transpiring in our society. None of what we’re seeing concerns the FA. Nothing. Not sure why you continue to mention it as if it does.

          1. My bad. Please replace wherever I said “Blake” with “Rittenhouse.” It certainly makes a difference. My apologies.

            I mean, enough already. Schools filled with children are NOT used car lots. A burning down KFC is horror? Some of you need to peek into the innocent minds of what some children in school hallways have witnessed to know real horror. See if you can differentiate the images of Mr. Blake [Mr. Rittenhouse] from what is permanently singed upon their memories.

        1. I find it ironic how our society glorifies violent sports that can cause permanent and long term physical damage to the brain(e.g. football, UFC fighting), glorifies assault weapons and gun sales as killing machines (along with quickly moving to the next topic after horrific shootings at elementary schools), glorifies violence and killing tools in video games and movies, glorifies a president who says “I could shoot somebody on the street and they’d still vote for me,” glorifies nearly every appetite for violence…..but is suddenly outraged by the images of protests turned ugly by a very small numbers of agitators where some businesses go up in flames (property damage where in almost all instances nobody is killed) .

          Where is the outrage for the violence/killings on our streets in school shootings and the continual glorification of weaponry to conduct violent acts? Where is the outrage for our seemingly human appetite to promote/seek violence and to make fantasies/games play into such appetites as well? Do you think we need the 17-year-old prancing around the perimeter of our elementary schools to protect our children from someone that looks just like him? Please tell me how you differentiate in a society that not only glorifies but has become so numb to mass killings at the ends of triggers? I don’t remember many comments about the horrific Las Vegas shooter who unleashed his weapon from a top floor hotel room on a peaceful crowd enjoying a concert. Where is the outrage and politicization of that violence?
          Were those acts not horrific affronts to peaceful gatherings? Is that type of gun violence not singed upon our brains and impede our “rights” and our “delights” to feel safe on our streets?
          Wasn’t our fearless ‘Bunion-in-Chief’ going to change all of that lawless danger invading our schools? How quickly he forgot about those kids and families of Parkland and Stoneman Douglas H.S. while glorifying young Mr. Blake into a gun brandishing folk hero.

          You’re not outraged when the limitless “rights” to bear arms ends up killing children in schools….but you’re outraged when the “rights to protest” burn down some empty buildings? Please tell me how sweeping horrific school shootings under a rug does anything to further an argument you care about violence on streets? Please, young Mr. Blake, come and protect my kid’s elementary school as well. I would have such comforts in knowing your cocky gun-happy presence parading the hallways of a school would make all children safer. I would be a proud American knowing a 17-year-old would have full mental stability and suddenly not just enter his gaming chair and drift into a killing fantasy…..

          Rights? Violence? You can actually keep a straight face as if these recent scenes from our streets is the only affront to our liberty? You are worried about peaceful protest being protected when we have examples of peaceful crowds getting annihilated and peaceful children in classrooms having lives ended in horrific instant fashion?

          We can send in the national guard to protect a used car lot…but we can’t protect our schools and peaceful gatherings via any sensible laws to keep mass killing weaponry out of the hands a killer who wants to make the nightly news of his video game fantasy?

          1. Where is the outrage? Is that a serious question? It’s everywhere and visible to all, if you’re paying attention. What planet do you inhabit to be so completely out of touch with this world?

          2. Thank god for this heroic caravan of school-crossing patrolmen who descended upon Parkland …..in an attempt to say “NO MORE!” Thank god they arrived at the request of our president’s tweeting pleas to fight against the stealing of our children’s rights to be safe!
            Thank god for their voices against violence. Thank god they took it to the streets and said the carefree days of children in schools and the rights of comfortable nights in summer’s delight for those who merely want to “peacefully” gather to enjoy concerts and movies at theaters will no longer be stolen at the end of a long gun.

            I mean, enough already….Schools filled with children are NOT used car lots. A burning down KFC is horror? Some of you need to peek into the innocent minds of what some children in school hallways have witnessed to know real horror. See if you can differentiate the images of Mr. Blake from what is permanently singed upon their memories.

          3. What planet do you inhabit to be so completely out of touch with this world?

            I live on a planet called Lovetron….A planet where there is more outrage for a burning used car lot than a horrific school shooting. A planet where a few city protests gone bad (mostly peaceful throughout our country) is politicized by our “law and order” leader who somehow can’t hold 10 minutes of outrage for a school shooting because he’s in the hip pocket of the NRA.

            I live on a planet where a 17-year-old brandishing his killing machine under his armpit is turned into a folk hero. He sells violence. He is violence. He believes in his bullets to end all grievances. I believe he has the maturity, humanity, control, decision power, training and instincts to protect a used car lot about as much as I would want him 10 miles from an elementary school. It is the Planet Lovetron.

          4. Of course it’s an outrage regarding school shootings…. and violence and a lot of things going on in many schools. A lot of our society is an outrage, mainly adults and things they create. Young people follow until… they make there own choices that equal consequences which are a result of what kind of leadership adults in society provide.

  24. Most of our country is not under siege. The provocation of violence via weapon brandishing groups are playing into isolated incidents and the fanning of flames upon fear.
    They have taken a message to promote all citizens to be given fair-handed and humane treatment during an arrest and made it their personal battle to subjugate more. There is nothing peaceful being protected. There is no humane message behind their trigger fingers. They are not “the law” nor do they care to respect the local law enforcing agencies. To take up arms in groups on streets not their own is far more “resistance” to law and order than one suspect fleeing an officer and getting shot in the back. The person fleeing is not resisting (in most instances) with the weapon power to match the 17-year-old taking “laws” into his own hands.
    Personally, I see these folk heroes and mini militias far more disrespectful and non-compliant to local police than any fleeing suspect. I doubt very few have even lived on the hard streets they believe to know and pretend to protect. They have no ability to empathize or understand. They seek the lowest common denominator of existence behind a weapon with extreme killing capabilities. It doesn’t get any more “resistant” to respect for law which should promote the least levels of violence necessary to quell unrest turned ugly or the intermittently crossing isolated lines of peaceful protests.

  25. I just watched a Biden campaign advertisement that blames Trump for the Big Ten Football season being postponed. Is that a coincidence or just good old fashioned political opportunism on display? That pretty much convinces me that the decision by 11 of the Big Ten Schools’ Presidents was in part a politically motivated decision. Another example of throwing straws on political camel’s back. Given that Ohio, Wisconsin, Michigan, MN and PA are all key “battleground states” in the upcoming election, and knowing that many voters are profoundly ignorant and naive, and that Presidents of Universities are some of the most leftist people in America, and the suspicious way the vote took place, it is not unreasonable to suspect that this vote was an attempt to increase the people’s misery index and therefore shift some votes to their “collectively” preferred candidate. In fact, that hypothesis is more credible than the official explanation that the Big Ten’s Presidents’ have provided to the public.

  26. It was probably a Russian internet troll advertisement funded by an underground anti-American/anti-democracy “deep Putin state” organization …..intended to create the opposite, pro-Trump, extremist effect seen in the incessant blather above.
    And if not, Joe Biden should still counter-punch with the same disingenuous conspiracy cards and deep state theories used by the habitual lying King Trump of the Lawless Trump Colonies.

    Honestly, I didn’t understand the visit to ‘Rushmore’ when the ground game to get football started was fumbled. Rush more? Try rush none. The game was going to be over and victory was to be declared by Easter Sunday even if we didn’t play any defense. There was no “rush” game when Covid hit the U.S.. There was simply the usual King Trump aerial BS attack….

  27. My guess is that the Commissioner of the Big10 made an illegal 3-way “Let’s Not Play Football” recruiting call and he should PAY! Sanction him now! Five years probation from nearing any college leadership setting!
    Seems like these witch hunts always start with the rare upper echelon job given to a black man. Is that just another convenient coincidence?

    Meanwhile, U. of Alabama has turned into a Covid mud wrestling orgy of virus spread and nobody should pay for such recklessness? Was such carefree attitudes simply promoted by university/state leadership because, without such “trivializing” and “normalizing” during a pandemic far from over, precious football may have been jeopardized.? The commissioners of the SCC and ACC caved to the pressures of football’s power and power figure coaches and put the football cash cow ahead of community responsibility? Party on, dudes…Party on. More deaths? Is what it is….

    1. Like it or not, people only put up with an imposed burden for so long especially when they see that burden doesn’t apply to all or isn’t applied evenly. H4H, viruses kill people the question is who is most vulnerable and what can be reasonably done to protect them. We make these decisions every day of our lives and the longer this virus “panic” goes on the less people will go along with it.

      The “villians” in the B1G are not Warren, unless he undercut the ADs position, but the 11 presidents that decided on the season without listening to the players and coaches that were willing to take the risk. Instead the presidents acted as dictators tell the subjects they couldn’t take the risk. H4H it is clear you think it is too dangerous, the participants don’t see it as too dangerous yet they are being denied the opportunity to play. I say the power should be in the players hands as they are most invested in the outcome something I thought you would favor.

      I know I live in an area with a limited number of cases but I have answered a survey from a major university [twice now] that shows I have had no contact with anyone having the virus, I know of no one with the virus -I have heard of people having it, and haven’t had anyone I know die from the virus. The group that has been hit the hardest are ones in an assisted living situation and can’t care for themselves. The elderly, I am edging into that age group now that I am 64, have done a good job protecting themselves taking steps to keep from getting the virus or being exposed. I hope everyone can protect themselves while finding a way for everyone to start living their lives fully again.

  28. I don’t necessarily believe the “concern” is the dangers presented to the players….(although some of the long term side effects are still a very unknown). I think the major concern is potential spread and containing spread. University settings already seem like quite the challenge. I’m not sure how much confidence anyone can have in athletes being completely mature enough to resist the same temptations of any student at a college atmosphere. It appears college ball has nothing approaching a “bubble” design being employed by those professional sports having the most success with keeping major outbreaks at bay.
    We’ll see how it all works out, V13.

    How about ERIC GORDON tonight! 21 points as Houston defeats OKC and moves on to face the Lakers. And did anyone else catch the phenomenal halftime buzzer-beater he hit in Game Six? It was an unbelievable catch-and-shoot balancing act from the corner …..

    I must confess…I’m starting to enjoy the NBA ‘Bubble’ games. I caved.

  29. the “thinking” that the BIG10 went too far in cancelling the football season might be tempered with these facts: 1 Iowa State has reversed it’s decision to allow 25,000 fans into their stadium to watch the first game back to NONE, ZERO, NO ONE watches. 2) 30 out of 40 Greek Houses are QUARANTINED AT IU. The cancellation was NEVER about the players; it was about putting 80-100 THOUSAND Fans in seats and the tailgating parties. Even now Universities are suspending students for attendance of off-campus parties. You can “cancel” activity but you cant cancel behavior and THAT is the MAJOR problem.

  30. Sorry TJ, but I don’t think you were correct when you wrote, “it was about putting 80-100 THOUSAND Fans in seats and the tailgating parties.” In every discussion/debate about Big Ten and PAC-12 FB games I heard/read about leading up to the President’s vote, it had already been decided that fans would not be allowed to attend the games or that only a small number of fans would be allowed to attend (i.e., 20% of the stadium capacity, etc.). I remember this because that precaution was also a very unpopular position with a segment of the college FB fan base. And the Presidents could have easily decided to allow the games to be played without fans in the stadium and without tailgates, just like all the other games/contests now being played by professional sports. If that’s what some of the Presidents were saying, it makes the justification for their decision even weaker and more suspect. The easiest thing they could have done would have been to say, “the games will be played, but without fans in attendance, and no tailgating will be allowed.” That way, they could cover their butts while saving the season (and TV revenue). The explanation the Presidents’ have put out to the public since their vote says nothing about their concerns for fans in attendance. Their supposed concern was about players, coaches, referees, universities employees, etc. who would have to work the games.

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