IU falls to No. 3 Michigan on Durham’s senior day, 73-57

Before the Hoosiers took the floor Saturday, Al Durham stood at the free throw line with his candy-stripe warmup pants in his left hand. His right arm wrapped around strength coach Clif Marshall.

They just stood there, hugging, for a solid minute, the once-scrawny guard from Lilburn, Ga., showing appreciation for the man who put 185 pounds on his 6-foot-4 frame.

“I told him I wouldn’t give a speech without talking to him,” Durham said. “I came in a buck-sixty, he’s helped me in that way. He’s also helped me off the court, in life situations, just being there for me.

“That’s considered family to me.”

For the next two-plus hours, Durham was everything the Hoosiers could ask him to be on a somewhat unorthodox senior day. There were no postgame speeches, and very few fans in Simon Skjodt Assembly Hall to hear them if there were. But Durham was his same feisty self, crashing through the lane for layups, finishing through a 6-7, 230-pound Isaiah Livers on one of them.

This was the closest he could get to a goodbye, scoring a team-high 15 points, cracking the career 1,000-point threshold on the day. IU coach Archie Miller just wished he could have gotten Durham one more thing after a 73-57 loss to No. 3 Michigan.

“He’s playing so hard, he’s working very, very hard right now for us, and it’s up to us to figure out how we can deliver a better performance on his senior day,” Miller said. “But it’s also up to us to figure out how we can keep playing with him.”

With the loss, the Hoosiers (12-12, 7-10 Big Ten) have now lost four of their last five, slipping in the wrong direction as they attempt to crack the NCAA tournament field for the first time in Miller’s tenure. That nearly four-year tenure has overlapped completely with Durham, one of the hardest-working, straightest arrows Miller could have asked for as a building block.

Durham just couldn’t will the Hoosiers to a win over the Wolverines all on his own.

From a 6-9 sophomore guard in Franz Wagner, to an NBA prototype in Livers on the wing, to the bullish 7-1 freshman Hunter Dickinson, the Wolverines were just more than the Hoosiers could handle.

This game did have a different quality than the Hoosiers’ last two. There was no second-half letdown, as was the case in losses to Michigan State and Rutgers, particularly the latter. IU competed. Durham drove the lane hard.

Michigan (18-1, 13-1) just always had a few more answers. Wagner finished off a transition layup with a Euro step on his way to 21 points. Livers hammered home a two-handed dunk off Michigan’s third offensive rebound of a possession, finishing with 16 points and 10 rebounds. Dickinson bullied his way to 13 points and seven boards.

IU was especially shorthanded with sophomore guard Armaan Franklin sidelined by a right foot injury, the opposite foot from his long-lingering ankle injury. It didn’t help that IU big man Trayce Jackson-Davis shot 3-of-12 from the field, or that Michigan was able to drain eight 3-pointers throughout the contest.

It’s not 100% clear whether Durham played his last game in Assembly Hall, because seniors do have the option of returning an extra year because of what the COVID-19 pandemic wrought. But this could be it. His career could end sooner than the Hoosiers would like — or at least not in the manner they would like — if they don’t win.

And if the Hoosiers continue to defend the 3-point line as they have, time could be running short.

“Our 3-point field goal percentage defense has really suffered because of our lack of smarts, effort, and communication in transition over the course of the season,” Miller said. “Transition defense has been our biggest problem, and when you’re playing against a team like a Michigan, or you’re playing against some of the teams that really have four shooters out there, we’ve really struggled with that element.”

IU also had another obvious disadvantage: at the free throw line.

In the first half, both teams shot about the same clip. In fact, the Hoosiers were just a tad better, 42.9% to Michigan’s 40.7%. But the Wolverines got to the free throw line a ton, converting on 16-of-18 from there. IU was just 6-of-9 in the first half.

Durham, Jerome Hunter, Khristian Lander, and Trey Galloway all picked up two fouls in the first 20 minutes, as Miller had to quickly rotate through his nine available players. Those extra free throws helped the Wolverines take a 42-33 lead into halftime.

“When you give a team 18 foul shots in the first half, that’s a lack of physicality and a lack of discipline,” Miller said. “I also thought we had some really tough reach-in calls that were undisciplined.”

Jackson-Davis also struggled to get going versus Michigan’s stout frontcourt. He was just 1-of-7 from the floor in the first 20 minutes, along with 1-of-3 from the free throw line.

The Hoosiers did get a boost going into the half, though, on a step-back 2-pointer at the buzzer by Hunter, whose foot was just inside the line. But the Wolverines opened the second half with deep shots from their own 6-7 forward Livers, who hit three shots from behind the arc to give Michigan a 51-38 lead.

Wagner helped push the lead out some more with his Euro step on a transition layup, followed by a post feed from Dickinson for an easy finish. Livers then came down with Michigan’s third offensive rebound on a possession, a thunderous two-handed dunk, to give the Wolverines a 59-42 edge with 11:23 remaining.

IU fought back, as Lander dropped in a runner, and Durham took a steal the length of the court for an and-1 layup, cutting it to 59-47. But Wagner finished a three-point play of his own on a post-up to kick the lead back to 15 points. At that point, Michigan cruised.

“To me, yeah, they’re complete,” Miller said of Michigan. “As they approach here toward the finish, they have a great opportunity to do and go as far as anybody in the country. I haven’t seen some of the other teams. I know within our league, if you do what they’re doing, you’re the real deal.”

Durham believes the Hoosiers also have more in the tank.

As they prepare for a road trip to Michigan State, the Hoosiers just have to dig deep.

“We gotta be more fierce. We gotta come out hungrier than the opponent. We just gotta come out wanting it more,” Durham said. “Stick with the process. I feel like we’ll break through here soon. I got nothing but faith in my team, and I feel like we’ll shock the world here soon.”


  1. When will this nightmare End?? #FireMillerNow….hard to watch this team play like crap Game n an game out!!!! Scott Dolson needs to remove Miller today…IU ladies lead osu 45-38 early third…

  2. It isn’t going to get any better next year. We lose Durham, and whether you like him or not, this game put him in the 1000 point, 250 rebound, 250 assist club. We get Parker Stewart and Logan Duncomb. TJD should not go pro but he probably will. He has no offense outside of 5 feet. Plus or minus any more transfers. We will be in the bottom fourth of the league next year.

    1. We do not lose Durham next season! Like every college player in the US, he has the option to return next season, with a scholarship, for an additional year. He will because he improves each and every year. He is not on any pros watch list yet. But he is now a 40%+ 3 point shooter, with a good floater at 5-9’, good rebounder, great FT shooter. And next year we know that he will improve!

  3. Lander finally scored a bucket for the first time in 6 games. Combined with Phinisee ‘the brick’, they combined for as many points (1 for 10) as Cooper Bybee who got in with :58 remaining,…2 points. We can only hope that SD’s Rolodex is up to date.

    1. Hate to say this, but maybe Archie would be better served to simply resign. Accept a lower buyout deal….Leave with some dignity (unlike the last fraud). How much money does he need? He’ll still get out of town with a number nearing 20 million total over four years if he took a 50% reduced buyout.

      Most wanted the guy’s head on a platter before giving him a chance anyway….Maybe we’re just paying for how we once treated kids from broken families that or forced to sleep on cold streets in cars? Maybe we’re paying for the choking of Neil Reed….? Maybe we’re paying for pious behavior and self-infatuations built on the empty cold hype of the decade preceding Miller?
      If you believe a new coach can stop the toxic environment (along with the toxic radio jock who fills the Indy airways with his vengeful agenda), you may be more “obtuse” than Archie Miller.

      1. The only ‘obtuse’ move would be to hide your head in the sand. As you go ‘slashing into the night’ in your Quixote mode,…Miller’s not stupid, nor is his agent. Yes, it would be the ‘right thing to do’….but this country, as you pointed out, doesn’t do that anymore, now does it? As for your ex-coach, broadcasting buddy,…he would be the first to shut up if whoever gets the job recruits, develops and wins as he is paid to do.

        1. Dakich will never shut up. He will jump on the bandwagon when we’re winning again. That’s his style.

  4. Congratulations to Al Durham. They played at a major college and got to continue education/Degree I assume. In that respect a good position to be in life. I thought IU men’s basketball played alright. The Michigan bigs are specialists along with rest of team. And a polished well coached team. IU is just physically overmatched. It really stands. To me Lander was misguided. He should be enjoying his senior year in high school. IU men’s basketball has played under sized regarding highly skilled big men. J. Morgan and now TJD. Both players needed and now TJD needs help with another or even 2 highly skilled big/s. Both, J. Morgan and now TJD would have and would have so much more fun. IU is just so physically talented undersized.

  5. What I knew about A.M. before IU. Before IU A.M. @ Dayton had good team vs Wichita State (another really good team in March Madness). Dayton seemed like they were going to win game but Wichita State won game. Wichita State beat IU as well and it looked like IU was going to win game as well. (I suppose many top recruits didn’t know much more about A.M. than I did because of (enough) high level recruiting.

    1. Undrafted Fred VanVleet….He ain’t doing too terrible in the NBA.
      Nobody on our team good stop him from driving to the rack. I remember the Wichita game at the Sweet 16 as if yesterday. It was worse than our recent debacle at Rutgers. Disgraceful defense all night long. Tom Crean going hysterical on the sideline because a whole timeout wasn’t enough to convey a message to intentionally foul and stop the clock with enough time to get the ball back…The entire sideline fiasco has become quite the popular animated gif. I know it’s been one of my favorites.
      And people claim this day in Hoosier history is worse….? Selective retention…or, simply, obtuse.

      But have it your way….Next coach up. Nine years not too much for charlaTom…but four years and the chopping block for you, Archie.

      1. I didn’t want Crean from day 1. He never played. Sat on the pine with a clipboard for Izzo. Rode Dwayne Wade into an over rated reputation. Tonight his Georgia Bulldogs got blown out. IU’s ‘braintrust’ is responsible for this entire mess post ‘the General’.

  6. H4H,
    No one on this site wanted to see Archie fail! That is a cheap shot. Everyone wanted him to succeed, compete for Big 10 titles, have teams capable of at least the Sweet Sixteen,. Let’s take a step back from the raw emotions, and see where IU basketball is and what it looks like for next year. Right now, I see IU above Nebraska, Penn State and possibly Northwestern and Minnesota next season. That’s it. IU basketball is in a free fall. Granted, there could be some transfers that come in. I understand this point guard from Pitt might be an option next season for IU. Other transfers might help. Jackson Davis would be foolish to return. Without him, this team is very bad. I really want IU to succeed, but I do not believe Archie is the guy. Archie is in a sense is the COO of IU basketball. After 4 years of this performance, any COO would be fired for lack of expected results. He has shown me very little. I would cut my losses and hire the best option available. This is not personal. I am sure Archie is a good guy, but he has not performed to the necessary level. He needs to go!

  7. Confusion. I am not in favor for A.M. firing.
    Reason. Perspective…..
    unless he wanted to resign (as best for himself, family and IU with a more feasible buyout).
    Do I think things will improve? No.
    Perspective tells me another year evaluate and if things are north of current standing 2 years and evaluate.
    Recommend: getting a couple highly skilled big talented players from Iceland or the North Pole or somewhere.

    1. t: Nothing personal, but what are talking about? Big men from where? 3 point shooters suddenly drawn to IU to save the day in year 5. Another year to see what happens? I have this simple reminder for everyone that thinks an additional year is needed. FIRST YEAR HEAD COACH JUWAN HOWARD, MICHIGAN. The right guy doesn’t need an extended period of time. The WRONG hire will likely never get it done.

      1. Brad, Realistically no I don’t think IU basketball is turned around next year or the next. However, IU with blue ribbon panel and politicians like Fred Glass who made the decisions for program can live with those decisions because of financial responsibilities. Not just at IU but everywhere Coaches and Non Coaches there should be some accountability regarding results especially if giving anyone a longer term contract. And Yes, I know that is not the way it is nowadays.

      2. Howard was blessed with a roster talent left by Belien. He didn’t have far to go in recruiting to go up. Momentum was inertia in place. Howard’s job would have been hard to screw up.

  8. I don’t think the lack of big men in the middle is causing the poor three point shooting. There has been no lack of wide open three point shots being missed.

    I think the reverse is true, a consistent three point threat would leave Trayce and Race fewer opposing big men to contend with, as the other team would have to put more effort in defending the three.

    1. I think opposite. Not only different offensive mindset but defensive mindset as well. TJD, Wagner, Dickinson… guards can make plays and shoot more confidently and have 3 physical dependable bigs to play with. Keep Lander in high school…IU later in game didn’t have that many turnovers…that’s what it takes to win big ten, and March Madness tournament championships

    2. Exactly. One reason IU collapses in the second half on a regular basis is that teams can afford to double-triple up the only real scoring threat, TJD. It’s not that this team doesn’t play hard, but as a group, they just don’t present a standard threat from outside.

      1. Also halftime adjustments are easy to make against IU with so few consistent scorers. Opponents know 3’s aren’t going to keep IU in the game.

  9. Without Franklin, we have no shot of beating a decent team no matter where we play them. Let alone Michigan. And Race is now wearing a shield which has to make him more tentative. We’re down 1.5 starters right now & it isn’t pretty at all.

    Our tournament chances rest with what happens and who plays this week. Win 2 & we’re back in the discussion. Win 1 & we’ll need 2 wins in the Big 10 tournament. Go 0fer & we’re done unless we win the Big Ten tournament (hahahaha 0% chance).

    If I were the commish I would’ve scrapped this yr’s. tournament. This week with all of the make up games & 3 games in 3 days is not going to bode well for Michigan, Illinois or OSU in the NCAA.

    1. AWinAZ – Hoosier Scoop needs more like you, AWinAZ. You have a great understanding of the game and you remain positive .

      I completely agree with you on the idea of the BigTen tournament needing scrapped. We’ve put these young men through enough this season. Give them a slight break before March Madness…Let the chips fall where they may with regard to our very delicate bubble status.

      When we lost Brunk….(maybe even after learning of Smith’s transfer before Archie had much of any shot to account for the loss of an extremely gifted upperclassman) I think most of us realized this season was going to be doubly difficult. No fans …? No super-energized Assembly Hall….? Very untimely injuries to Franklin? 50% of our inside rotations game gone (Brunk & Smith) turning us to Swiss cheese in the paint..? TJD is one of the best bigs in the conference, but he’s been forced into putting in more minutes than likely any big in our recent history. And with 50% of the inside help that was expected to return from last season, he’s been magnet of focus of opponents with far more inside weaponry.

      Before I ramble on too much again, just want to say thanks for keeping it real, AWinAZ.

    2. The B1G tournament from the outset was a terrible idea except for the revenue. Like Knight said,..”what’s the regular season for?”. As for the new ‘bro-mance’ of HfH and AZ…..the only thing ‘real’ that I’ve seen posted between you two is the ‘wishful’ list of how things could somehow get magically better if just holding on to a young coach that has singlehandidly taken a fragile program to the depths of incompetence in 4 short years. Then again, HfH, you ‘liked’ IU’s chances over Rutgers, MSU and Michigan. Optimism has its limits, then at some point it becomes lunacy.

  10. So, can I hear some recommendations on who IU should hire as next coach?? I would like to know everyone’s thoughts. Archie may be coach next year, but I see an even worse team next year. If that is case, IU has to pull the plug, if they don’t do this after this year. Or, does it really matter to IU anymore?? Maybe they just want to have a BB team on court to get TV revenue regardless of if they are good or not? Just asking.

  11. Durham has won me over….I would love him to come back for another season. How can you not admire his work ethic and his steadfast determined attitude? Fantastic young man….Unselfish and has done nothing but played team ball and quietly delivered results and big plays rather unrecognized.

    His last quote in the quality synopsis of his time at IU presented by Jon makes me wonder how/why we want to throw any of these Hoosiers under a bus…(and I’ve been just as at fault). He still retains all his fight and hope. When someone has adopted the candy stripes and has still fallen in love with what the candy stripes represent in the face of disappointment and a pandemic? This kid has won me over…permanently. I think any of us would be extremely proud to have this young man as our own son.

    1. This is a great post Harv. I agree with every word.

      Jon posted a great picture pregame of him and Coach Marshall hugging before the game. I think my allergies are acting up…


      I’m really going to miss Al too. He’s worked really hard to be a great Hoosier. He deserves a speech in front of the home fans. I would fly out if that was to happen just to applaud him myself.

      1. That one picture and moment does more for Indiana Basketball than three more banners…..Thanks for showing me, DD.

        And we should get behind Phinisee. Life is too short.

  12. I just can’t believe we are going to miss the tournament when the entire tournament is being held in Indiana.

    1. DD: The essence of ‘March Madness’ (corporate rip off from ‘Hoosier Hysteria’)
      10 eligible schools in the state. The entire tournament being played here, with only Purdue making the field. Airlines and hotels love it, but that’s about it. The ‘state’ of collegiate basketball, here, is in a huge downturn…not just IU.

      1. Agree with you, Brad. But don’t some of the “invites”for mid-majors still primarily rely on who wins the conference tournaments (Valparaiso, Ball State, etc)?

        And if you’re looking for a nearby Cinderella with a very fun team to watch, there is always Loyola of Chicago. Krutwig is a delight. Head coach of Loyola, Porter Moser, learned under the late, great …and very entertaining, Rick Majerus. Maybe they can shock the world again?

        Don’t count the Hoosiers out just yet….Anything can happen in these last two games. Wins on the road against MSU (now suddenly looking like a Final Four team) and our hated rival quickly get us back in the tub with Mr. Bubble (a.k.a. Lunardi without toupee).
        Then we simply approach the conference tournament as our Big Dance. Brunk comes in to save the day…Welcome to Fantasy Island….Da plane, boss…Da plane!

  13. High % chance IU men’s basketball will miss tournament in 2022. Not enough high skilled physical talent including bigs. IU is physically and mentally consistently leveraged into losing games. IU has been getting knocked around for years now. (Offense pushed around, defense unable to body up, drives and shots often have to be adjusted into bad shots, offense off balance = mental frustration and lack of confidence creates advantage whoever the opponent is placing IU men’s basketball in a struggle to be in middle big ten pack.

  14. Saw one of the sports writers (Pat Forde) talk about the idea of Scott Drew coming home to Indiana to coach the Hoosiers. Interesting idea. What do you think?

  15. I think we stop the “new coach” discussion. Allow Archie to get a more experienced and beefed-up point guard in Lander…Allow for Brunk’s healthy return (hopeful) and an overall more mature roster.

    Lander, Franklin ….and Stewart plus possible return of Durham, one more season of TJD,….Brunk, vastly improved Race and a solid bench. We have a great foundation. Search for an additional solid body on the inside who can be more comfortable in mid-range/jump shooting.

    Butler having a less than stellar season…and then they proceed to take down #8 Viillanova today.

    College basketball is all over the place. March Madness field should have been expanded to 96 teams to account for the topsy-turvy world impacted by zero fans, pandemic, bluebloods not looking like bluebloods, rarely seen parity in many of the power conferences, and the overall unprecedented commitment it took from college athletes to adhere to protocols which basically imprisoned them throughout the season. What was to lose by expanding the field based on the beyond extenuating circumstances of this season? There certainly wasn’t money to lose….and I’m confident Indy is one of the few cities which could have pulled it off. We have huge high school gymnasiums, arenas, etc… and an abundance of hotels…along with very simple commuting.

    1. Interesting you brought up Butler. Barry Collier really went off (as nice as he could) when I suggested they should have done everything to keep Holtman.
      That Jordan, while someone he liked as a former player, lacked the neccessary coaching cred. They went from a highly regarded program on the rise back to relative insignifigance. Even though he got it with Matta, Stevens and Holtman..it’s hard to maintain a ‘lucky streak’…

    2. Archie may get the “Covid year” pass. However, I’m not sold on Lander at this point a lot a air balls and badly missed shots. Sounds as if Brunk not be able to physically play, The All American is probably going to leave after this year. So if Archie does come back next year, it will be a long shot if he can push a .500% + record. Maybe they get a player or two via transfer pool?? I really had hoped that Archie would have been the coach for next 15-20 years when he hired on, but doesn’t look to be the case.

  16. Could have built the entire tournament as if it were a historical tour through time of some of the most storied gyms throughout the state (high schools where many of the true icons of Indiana basketball played among packed sectional crowds)…Maybe even see if any of those statewide basketball heroes could be at each venue for tip-off ceremonies? Hopefully, at minimum, there will be consideration of places like Crispus Attucks H.S….the old Broad Ripple H.S. ….Washington H.S…..Hinkle Fieldhouse. But it would have been great if it could have somehow been expanded to many other historic hometowns where basketball was king….French Lick, Bedford, Marian, Gary Roosevelt, New Albany, Connersville, Plymouth, Jeffersonville, Lafayette Jefferson, Muncie Central.
    I believe the national audiences would have ate it up….March Madness lives forever in the those quiet gyms of forgotten days.

    1. Good thought HH. Would have made this tourney one to remember and one talked about for years.

  17. High school basketball dimensions are 10 ft shorter. I hear they actually considered this idea for a sec, but it was just too invasive for many of the gyms to lengthen them to college dimensions.

    1. Wonder how they did the state championships at Hinkle when Butler was also playing college ball….? I guess the slight lengthening of college courts came after the early ’70s.

      I did read there will be games at Hinkle…so that will be cool. I’ve only been there once…but it is one fantastic place. When you walk in and are under the stands, you feel like you’re inside old Wrigley Field.

      Speaking of Butler, by pure chance I heard LaVall Jordan talking to the small contingent of fans after their win against Villanova….Didn’t even know the game was on…but I found it on the radio while driving. LaVall was telling a story about one of his seniors on Senior Night. Very articulate and comfortable talking to the crowd. I don’t know if he has the coaching skills of his predecessors, but he sure comes across as a very down to earth and intelligent guy.
      Even though Butler has a plethora of basketball success and tradition, it never appears the job comes with the pressure of Indiana University basketball. The fans embrace the hires…and it doesn’t seem like the patience is nearly as short.

      Indiana coaches always appear under far more emotional strain….Unless things go well quickly, you can see the weight of the job begin to affect their demeanor. Very difficult to retain and ‘easy going’ nature at Indiana. Have we created that monster…? Could even the seasoned experts with thick resumes of success, guys like Stevens and Beilein, hold it together long enough for the thin line of patience that grows with each rebuild post Knight’s firing?

      1. The college dimensions have always been larger. All Butler did was restripe the court and move the baskets.

    2. Conclusion: I suppose that’s why I feel we need to give Archie the confidence and time to, at minimum, allow his underclassmen to grow into upperclassmen. I don’t know how healthy a message is conveyed to any future hire witnessing the Hoosier Nation behind the wheel of the bus with foot on accelerator…revving the engine, as if it’s become second nature to plow over the next failure.

      Have we developed “zero tolerance” for patience…and does every new hire feel that strain far too prematurely than at other quality programs? Does this mean any new hire must be of tricky tongue …and only in it for the money? No matter how you slice it, they know we will soon be slicing and dicing up their credentials and undercutting/undermining any sincere long-term efforts requiring trust and faith.

      We have grown so fearful of a wrong hire, we turn the next choice quickly into wrong hires and suffocate any comfort level and confidence they hoped to exude to their staff and to their team?

  18. Scott Drew was 74-108 in the Big12 Conference in his first eleven seasons at Baylor.
    Took him five years to get into the NCAA (first round loss), and seven seasons to get to his second NCAA tournament (elite 8).
    He has had great success recently, but still has a losing record in the Big12.
    Think IU fans would wait that long for him to turn a program around here?
    Would they even consider what he did in his first eleven years “turning a program around?”
    I personally don’t think so.
    And, would he leave a team that might win the NCAA championship this year (that took him 18 years to build) to come to IU?
    Just my opinion.

  19. Nat: Excellent observation on Drew. There are 5-6 current, approachable college coaches that likely could come in and do a nice job. I also wouldn’t rule out a good assistant in the NBA that relates well to younger kids,..and finally, Carmel’s head coach. Don’t laugh until you see how they play. Tom Allen’s road to success, so far anyway, wasn’t the traditional route. If Jack Kiefer at Lawrence North weren’t nearly as old as me, he’d likely do a heckuva job. He’s developed almost as many NBA players as IU has over the same time period.

    1. Thanks Brad.
      I never even thought of Carmel’s coach, but who knows?
      He’s bound to have great contacts in Indiana high schools, and could get the straight dope on Indiana kids.
      I rather suspect IU will give Archie another year simply due to financial considerations if nothing else.

  20. Year or two. When are major colleges/universities going to implement any kind of realistic financial responsibility?
    Analysis: Gov’t checks (whatever one calls them) trillions of dollars and very small % goes directly to people as tax rebate (though more money being printed).
    So if $1.00 more increases per gallon of gas paid, inflation $20.00 more per at grocery store, $20.00 more paid on utility bills, Auto maintenance and repairs increase $20.00, medical costs increase $20.00, home maintenance and rentals increase $20.00 etc etc etc….Gov’t stimulus checks of a couple thousand dollars costs the individual citizen in excess of $10,000.

  21. To the #Fire Archie brigade, we’ve seen & heard your act before, like 3 & 4 yrs. into the Crean era, after Sampson cheated, when Davis burned out. Crean DID get it turned but he topped out in the Sweet 16 with the best team of talent we’ve had in 20 yrs.

    I want to win. You want to win. Every IU fan wants to win. We get it. But few have any viable names to replace him who would get it turned around in 1, 2, 3, or 4 yrs. We would have to wade through a plethora of transfers, lost recruits, and a general reboot….again! I wouldn’t donate $1 for that continued pain, time & suffering.

    I think you all should get a grip and realize that the discontent shown openly is not helping make IU a choice destination anymore, for coaches nor players. Playing at IU puts you in a divided environment & under the microscope. Not every 18 yr. old can stomach such scrutiny. Remember that. So you have to get kids who can. It’ll be interesting to see what comes (or goes as it may be) of our freshman after this year. We should all take to SUPPORTING the program and its kids and coaches, not internally combusting it. Unfortunately though, in today’s world, the squeaky wheel gets the grease. And you ‘greasers’ are making the situation far, far worse than it is.

    Personally, IF the decision is taken to move-on from Archie after this, next or future years, I believe it is time for an IU-man to be given the wheel. There are many with which to choose with viable pedigrees; Wittman, Cheaney, Woodson, G. Graham, Fife, Alford, etc…. But be careful with hiring one of your own, because that will be a powder keg, capable of blowing up in any direction. & if it turns south, you’ll have nowhere to turn thereafter. And as for hiring a high school coach….give me a break.

    1. I’m not in the #firearchie brigade, but one has to put into context a couple of things:

      1) Indiana hasn’t had a winning record in the B1G in 5 years: that hasn’t happened since 1920s.
      2) If you are a senior this year, you have never experienced Indiana playing in the tournament.
      3) Trajectory

      I’m not saying you’re saying this, but I don’t think it is unreasonable to hold the Indiana Basketball program to a higher standard that what we are getting. Archie said he would instill a culture of toughness when he took the job. 4 years long enough to instill culture. Why hasn’t that happened? Is it coming? Do you feel like the only thing Archie needs is more time?

      I dunno. There’s a mix of impatience and lack of performance here. But, I think the pressure on Archie Miller is appropriate. But I’d also like to seem him answer the call amidst this pressure. Missing the NCAA is not acceptable at Indiana. And I don’t see anything that resembles that makings of a championship producing program. And I’m also willing to admit that I can’t only see about 50% of it. I’m open. As long as the guy has integrity, I’m willing to grant leniency.

      And I should go on the record saying that any of those “Indiana guys” as replacements sans Cheaney would make me barf. Think we’re mired in mediocrity now? We’ll be Penn State on the other end of that. But, your comment about the high school coaches made me laugh. Agreed!

      1. Here’s the context. Coach Miller will be starting season 3 next year in my eyes. His 1st year is a free ride with the no talent roster Crean left him. His 2nd season was marred with more injuries than I can recall any B1G team ever suffering and I go back to the mid 50’s as a fan. With all that I’ve seen to much player improvement spoiled by poor shooting to not want to see Miller succeed next year. The offense has provided consistent good looks that players simply couldn’t put through the hoop. Can’t wait.

    2. IU already did. When Bob Leonard refused the job in order to coach the Pacers in 68, Washington High School’s Jerry Oliver was brought in to replace Lou Watson. Doing so, George McGinnis and Steve Downing followed. Not so ‘funny’ now, is it?

      1. Are you seriously comparing 1968 to the pressures of 2021 on a head coach? Also, the game was completely different. Kids weren’t allowed to dunk until 1976.

        Being a college basketball coach in 2021 is about 20% knowledge of the game. High school coaches don’t deal with boosters, 24-hr national/social media coverage, recruiting and developing players for professional careers in basketball (not just skills wise). Folks can say they are overpaid. But ultimately, these coaches bring in so much money to the university and winning brings in even more.

        This isn’t even remotely the same ballpark of comparison. Mike Davis wilted under this pressure. He’s coached pretty much off the grid since IU and that much more suits his personality. Harv has articulated it well. To succeed and coach at Indiana University, the skill sets are so much greater than just being able to coach basketball. Love it or hate it, them’s the facts.

        This is the crux of many of the discussions around here. There are a lot of you older fellas that spend a lot of time HATING how college basketball operates and exists today. I’m not pro or against. I just take it for what it is. What I do care about is Indiana University competing for national championships again.

        1. I liked Archie as a coach because he seemed far removed from simply saying what appeals to the narcissistic trends of the day. He doesn’t build a shrine around the name “Indiana.” He doesn’t use Indiana by merely telling us what many of our own delusions hunger.

          To build something genuine is far greater a task than to bask in the marketing of oneself while aiming at targets for a reason things fell from grace. We rebuild everything on the cheap these days. A plethora of marketing, social media tools and tweets available to politicians, business moguls, universities, athletes, insurrectionists, conspirators to make instant celebrity of oneself or one’s personal righteous agenda.

          To me, Archie was a rare breath of fresh air seemingly removed from the self-marketing and narcissistic obsessions of a self-engrossed world. What’s most ironic, is Archie seems more “Indiana” than those who have dumbed us down into an artifact and a billboard. And if whatever college basketball has become has passed a humble and honest message about oneself by, then Archie Miller is not the one who has sold his soul.

        2. DD: When Bob Knight was hired he was 30. Ryan Osborn, at Carmel, is about the same age. Bob Knight coached at anything but a media pressurized environment at West Point,..probably less ‘scrutiny’ than at the ‘University’ of Carmel in 2021. He brought a 25 year old former Army point guard from Chicago, who has gone on to become the all time winningest coach in the game. As for dunking. No one on the Hudson River at that time could likely dunk anyway. Huh? Was that an impediment to McGinnis and Downing coming aboard? It sure didn’t slow them down in the pros. You keep going back and forth on Archie good, Archie bad, fire him, keep him…Your most saliant comments point to AM’s performance. It’s terrible, by any standard. Greg Lansing is 14-9 at Indiana State this same covid year ….and ISU gave him their pink slip even before the MVC Arch Madness begins. How’s that for patience?

  22. AwinAZ- In total agreement with your thoughts…
    Please see my earlier posts which were just given moderation approval though not appearing in side bar of ‘Recent Comments’ (1:39 a.m & 1:54 a.m.) I spoke of “zero tolerance” for patience….among other things including how coaches at other programs never appear to be carrying the weight/emotional strain that quickly wears on new hires at Indiana. Repeat: Have we created this monster?

    1. I didn’t see your posts until now but how interesting it is that we are in alignment yet again. I do think the expectations are a real problem with this program & have been since the administration, trustees & Brand essentially ruined “the brand”. How ironic. How moronic.

  23. Goodness gracious….Iowa made OSU look simply mediocre yesterday. Meanwhile, we’ve defeated Iowa twice, have the same exact conference record as MSU (each @ 7-10), but Jerry Palm has MSU in the tournament and Indiana out.

    Appears our tournament life hangs by a thread based on Tuesday night…(along with the Spartans’ hopes who have 3 games in 5 days). MSU certainly can’t afford a loss to us with still having two games against Michigan.

  24. Headline from The Dailey Hoosier: “Joey Brunk still undecided on return for sixth season”

    While Brunk said that he wants to keep on playing as long as he can, he’s not sure if he’ll return to play of IU next season. Wants to talk about how he’ll fit into next year’s roster. Since I’m assuming he’s not an NBA prospect, where else can he play? I don’t think Brunk can transfer to another school again, can he? Bad on me to have assumed that as long as he was healthy, Brunk was an automatic return to IU.

    Boy or boy, Archie needs some good news and soon.

  25. Like Tiger Woods said…You only get one back. My guess is Joey is undecided because of future health concerns.

  26. The article in the Daily Hoosier by our old friend Dustin Dopirak about Brunk was good. But I think you are misinterpreting the article. He isn’t talking about leaving. He’s just in a gray area with a lot of unknowns. He’s lifting weights, but barely. He’s had surgery on repairing a disc in his back, so the question marks seem to be around whether he can even play or not. Also, he’s a graduate transfer who has the possibility of a 6th year. He will get his masters in this spring, so if he plays next year, he’ll have to find another program to enroll in.

    If he wants to transfer, he totally can. The new rules are very lenient and he could play right away if he was healthy and wanted to go somewhere else.

    He didn’t commit to Senior Day activities because he wanted to leave the door open if he can play next year. I think it’s a pretty big IF. Surgically repaired discs when you’re a smidge under 7 ft tall are no joke and, forget basketball, could impact him for the rest of his life.

    1. IMO, the following sums up Brunk’s current position:
      “He hasn’t decided yet if he wants to return to Indiana to play next season. But he isn’t sure that he won’t,….”

      1. Could be one of three things ( most of which may be contingent upon the other):

        Not sure if his back will be back enough to warrant coming back.
        Not sure if Archie will come back and want him back.
        Not sure if Archie’s replacement will want him back even if Brunk is ready for a comeback.

        Bottom Line: It’s vague as hell.

  27. Dustin lost his job at ‘The Athletic’…? In my humble opinion, sites with paywalls are doomed.

  28. Brunk has to take care of himself as large human being and his best interest comes first and sure that A.M. and IU sees it that way. Regardless, Brunk is a non factor as far as ever playing on the floor for IU. Even if we’re to play what could he do…confidence, injury aggravations, level of play in a physical conference. Maybe, play at a lesser conference with less physicality but even that is WHY?

  29. Nebraska up 26 points on Rutgers halfway through second half…WHHHHHHHAAAAAT!?

    Like I’ve been saying …..College basketball is all over the place. Michigan separated…but the rest of the conference is all over the place.

    No less than 10 teams from the conference should be in the Big Dance. The toughest league in the nation…by far.

  30. Regarding A.M. Times I listen to him post game… I come away feeling he kinda just goes thru the motions and really not to enthusiastic with no sense of urgency. A.M just gives a oh Um analysis of game. This team did this well…IU did this well…we didn’t have answers… I suppose what can he do in his situation.

  31. DD I read yur comments about the pressure on today’s coaches …This was posted on the internet this morning–Rich Texas Donors Threaten to Pull Funding if Players Don’t Sing School Song. The threats aren’t just about monetary donations to the school and various other benefactors. They’re threatening to cancel season tickets, boycott games and shut off the money if the school doesn’t play “The Eyes of Texas” at sporting events.

    One football player tweeted that he and his teammates have been told they should look for jobs outside of the state of Texas if they don’t stay to sing the song after their contests. WHO NEEDS THIS CRAP??!! being passed off as a “School Supporter”.

  32. How about other Texas schools? Does that mean IU post game song would be “Back Home Again In Indiana” or does Indy 500 have ownership to this song?

    1. Back home again in Indiana
      And it seems no March Madness we’ll see
      The gleaming Bobby Knight no longer shining bright
      And Bird’s old Sycamores suck times three
      The banner heyday sends a musty fragrance
      From the Final Fours I used to roam
      When I dream of lava lamps and scalping tickets for wads of cash
      Then I long for my Indiana dorm
      Back home again in Indiana
      And it seems no March Madness we’ll see
      The gleaming Bobby Knight no longer shining bright
      And Bird’s old Sycamores suck times three
      The banner heyday sends a musty fragrance
      From the Final Fours I used to roam
      When I dream of lava lamps and scalping tickets for wads of cash
      Then I long for my Indiana dorm

  33. Any athlete should tell them to go eff themselves….This is America. Freedom to speak. Freedom to not speak. Before you know it, everything we fought for is as cold as the clay.

    Then again, I might consider singing Streets of Laredo.


  34. After tonight’s Sparty blowout at East Lansing (-3) [More like 8 or 9] and Saturday’s Mackey massacre,…my guess, by at least 15 points, then maybe some of the AM sympathetic contributors on this site will finally admit the obvious. AM needs to be replaced. As usual, I do my game thoughts ‘before’ not ‘after’ the fact. I’ll live with it if I’m wrong,..but I want the credit when I’m right…like I have been the last 3 games. It’s not that AM is a bad guy or the kids are bad kids,
    not even that they’re necessarily bad roundballers …they are, unfortunately unlike most examples in life, actually WORSE as a result of the ‘sum of their parts’. They just don’t compliment one another. That is coaching, plain and simple!

  35. @ Rutgers on their Senior Night…against one of the top teams in the country in Michigan, @ MSU…@ Hack-Me Arena on their Senior Night.

    Don’t go out on a limb too much there, Brad.

  36. College basketball analysts Robbie Hummel and Jeff Goodman, two men who have known Archie, who think he’s a good coach and who predicted he would do well at IU, openly discussed on a podcast when IU will fire Archie. Sports Illustrated’s college hoops writer recently justified his suggestion that IU should hire Scott Drew immediately. So win or lose tonight, the perception is that Archie is a lame duck. A lot of the college basketball experts consider it a foregone conclusion, and to them the only remaining question is when.

    To avoid that fate, Archie needs to win out the remainder of the regular season and win several games in post season play. Then he’s going to have to recruit at least one additional transfer. Probably a high quality point guard and/or another Big (Center of PF). And if he’s lucky enough to get a fifth season, he’s going to have to lead next year’s roster to a minimum of 24 wins and do well in the NCAA tournament. IMO, anything less than that and his time at IU will be at an end.

    When I take a step back and look at his performance without emotion, to me the bottom line is that Archie has failed as a recruiter. And for IU, with the BB tradition, the rabid fan base, the generous recruiting budget and the world class facilities, that’s just unacceptable. I’m not sure why he has failed to recruit enough talent. Maybe kids are turned off by his pedestrian offense and his demand that they learn the complexity of his defense before they’re trusted with significant playing time. Maybe his commitment to “Inside Out” recruiting is a mistake. It’s like the doctor who doesn’t know exactly what’s wrong with his patient, but he knows how to cure him.

    1. HC, I sincerely respect your belief that IU BB will rise again next season, but I’d really appreciate your justification for making such a bold prediction. What evidence do you base that upon? What developments do you see that most other IU fans can’t see?

      1. Po I evaluate more than the W/L. So you expend the effort and look at everything else. Pretty simple task.

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